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Re: Why am I forced to give feedback?

Active Member
Yaron E Member Since: Jan 1, 2015
1 of 40

I recently hired a person for a short test job, I emphasize this was only a test job.

It doesn't reflect on any of the persons skills.

 

At the end of the test project I decided not to continue the contract, but quickly realized that I'm forced to give feedback to the person.

 

My question is why am I forced, to give feedback when obviously I don't have enough information to judge the persons skill?

 

My goal, when pressing the button "End Contract", is to close the contract. What I don't understand is why am I getting blocked from the action I want to perform?

 

Actually makes me think about the quality of ranking within the site since, if people are forced to give feedback. Bill just give any feedback, just to pass this stage.

 

Think if this was a real situation in life, of me leaving a store and the security guard stops and tells me that I can't leave the store until I fill out a feedback form, since the company really needs it for the next client that comes in.

 

I'll be happy for a logical response, to this strange treatment of clients

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Community Guru
Irene B Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
2 of 40

It is because Upwork penalises a freelancer negatively with their Job scores if a client leaves no, or bad, feedback.

 

It has been an ongoing bone of contention in the freelancer section, as the freelancer's Job score is determined by a robot, which does not take into account situations such as you have described.

Community Guru
Barbara W Member Since: Sep 10, 2015
3 of 40

As a freelancer, I can say that Irene is 100% correct.

 

If the test job didn't reflect the skills of the freelancer, what was the point? Positive feedback doesn't mean that you have to hire them again, if that's what you're concerned with.

 

If you don't leave feedback, it can negatively impact the freelancer. Not if it only happens once, apparently (Upwork isn't very clear on their algorithms), but at a certain point it's seen as them not following through somehow.

 

If the client didn't do a bad job - is it safe to say they did a good job? And vice versa.

 

If you really can't think of anything to put - may as well put 5 stars, right? You've chosen not to hire them for future work, and your 5-star rating can help them to get a different job. Obviously there's no way anyone else can evaluate the job done for you, but, if it were me, I'd go ahead and give them 5 stars to be nice.

- Barbara Herrera -
Community Guru
Sandra T Member Since: Nov 26, 2014
4 of 40

I think this is an excellent point raised by a client. Clients may not want to leave feedback for perfectly valid reasons.

 

My first thought was to implement a choice like "not enough data to rate freelancer". Problem is, being aware of this some freelancers might try to get their client use this option in situations where it is not applicable. But then, if freelancers do try, their clients might want to rate them after all?

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Active Member
Yaron E Member Since: Jan 1, 2015
5 of 40

Hi Barbara,

 

Giving them 5 stars Just beats the whole purpose of a starring system, the job were neither good or bad.

It was just not what I needed,

 

I would argue that 1 hour of work reflects nothing about the skill, and the know-how of a person.

and I should not be forced to give any feedback based on a superficial/nonexistent knowledge of the person's skills.

 

When you make a form feel mandatory, it will just get Filled. it's Like when a site forces you to give out your phone number, or age to perform some action, you just enter something to go to the next step it has no value.

 

In fact it decreases the value for everyone, since if I give him 5 stars for A non-deserving job what does that say about your hard earned 5 stars. and how do I treat the next guy with five stars I see.

 

 

Community Guru
Irene B Member Since: Feb 17, 2015
6 of 40

Your reasoning is perfectly valid, Igor, and we have mentioned much of what you say in the freelancer section. Please, take note, the majority of freelancers share your sentiments. But we are also the ones that get penalised when a client leaves no feedback or does not close a contract. We are, unfortunately, the ones that are caught between a rock and a hard place, which is why Barbara, I believe, made her suggestion.

 

 

Community Guru
Nichola L Member Since: Mar 13, 2015
7 of 40

Yaron, I agree with Barbara, and with you. If really you cannot judge the freelancer's work, what harm could there be in leaving good feedback that is encouraging for the provider? Particularly if you found nothing particularly wrong with the work, and that you simply have simply preferred someone else.

 

On the other hand, if the freelancer's sample, did not come up to the standards of what you required, then you should assess him or her on that premise.

 

Your suggestion should definitely be considered by Upwork. I think a client should be allowed to be neutral, so that a freelancer is not condemned for no feedback. A client irritated by a mandatory form may well check the boxes emotively, which could be extremely detrimental to the freelancer's ratings. 

Community Guru
Barbara W Member Since: Sep 10, 2015
8 of 40

@Yaron E wrote:

Hi Barbara,

 

Giving them 5 stars Just beats the whole purpose of a starring system, the job were neither good or bad.

It was just not what I needed,

 

I would argue that 1 hour of work reflects nothing about the skill, and the know-how of a person.

and I should not be forced to give any feedback based on a superficial/nonexistent knowledge of the person's skills.

 

When you make a form feel mandatory, it will just get Filled. it's Like when a site forces you to give out your phone number, or age to perform some action, you just enter something to go to the next step it has no value.

 

In fact it decreases the value for everyone, since if I give him 5 stars for A non-deserving job what does that say about your hard earned 5 stars. and how do I treat the next guy with five stars I see.

 


 I definitely understand what you're saying. I work hard for my 5-star feedback, and it does seem a little silly to give them frivolously to others. All I'm saying is that if there's nothing wrong with the work, you essentially got a 5-star job. Upwork weighs these scores based on their dollar value when calculating their job success score. That is, a 5-star on a one-hour contract wouldn't lift the contract nearly as much as, say, a 3-star contract on a 10-hour project would drop them. The specific algorithm isn't transparent to us as freelancers, or to you as clients, all I know is that if we get no feedback, it negatively affects us after some time. Any feedback that isn't negative, is basically a good thing for us.

- Barbara Herrera -
Community Guru
Claudia Z Member Since: Jul 28, 2015
9 of 40

Yaron,
there is no such thing as test job. Did the freelancer complete the job based on your requirements? Did it meet your expectations? This is what the feedback/rate is for. You are not rating a freelancer's skills for mowing the lawn if that wasnt in your job description.


You have reasons to have doubts about rating because it doesnt sound like the freelancer met your expectations. Back in your mind you might think that maybe that freelancer work would just do it for someone else....


You can tell the freelancer that if you were to give a rating, it will not be a 5* but you will mention in the feedback it was just not what you needed.


You are not forced to leave a feedback if the freelancer closes the job.


So, you can ask the freelancer to choose between the two ...

Active Member
Yaron E Member Since: Jan 1, 2015
10 of 40

You mean you can't think of any scenario that a job can be considered a test job?  What if me the client thinks that an hour work is not enough to judge a person should I be forced to rank him anyway?

 

And yes it is forced, you cannot end the job, the system doesn't let you.

 

This system forces you to bend backwards to close the job, or give an arbitrary feedback.

 

I was really hoping for an official response, because truly I don't understand the logic behind it

 

 

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