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Re: Why am I forced to give feedback?

Moderator
Valeria K Moderator Member Since: Mar 6, 2014
21 of 40

Hi Yaron and others,

 

Thank you for having this conversation and sharing your feedback and opinions. I will definitely forward it to the team. We ask the party that closes the contract to provide feedback and encourage the other party to do it as well, because it helps to build trust on the marketplace and motivates freelancers to improve and develop their careers. We do take performance and communication very seriously regardless of the volume of work and that's why we value honest feeback and display it on public profiles in the form of star rating and the Job Success score. 

~ Valeria
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Active Member
Yaron E Member Since: Jan 1, 2015
22 of 40

HI Valeria,

 

T

and thanks to everybody else that expressed their opinion.

 

Community Guru
Cairenn R Member Since: Aug 19, 2015
23 of 40

@Yaron E wrote:

I recently hired a person for a short test job, I emphasize this was only a test job.

It doesn't reflect on any of the persons skills.

 

My question is why am I forced, to give feedback when obviously I don't have enough information to judge the persons skill?

 

 

 

 


You are contradicting yourself here. You created a job that was not to "reflect on any of the person's skills", but then state: "obviously I don't have enough information to judge the person's skill". Now you are upset that feedback is required?

 

You closed the contract. How much time were you giving the person to jump through the hoop for nothing? 

 

Whenever I see "test job", I think "not a serious client; red flag". 

You agreed to the UW terms when you signed up.  Nothing strange about it. 

Community Guru
Marcia M Member Since: Apr 3, 2013
24 of 40

There's nothing wrong with a test job in itself, as long as it's paid for and it actually tests for the relevant skills. Before I hire you to translate a whole ebook from English to German, let's see how well you can translate a few paragraphs or a page.

Active Member
tanya s Member Since: Oct 11, 2015
25 of 40

The system might be wrong. However, if  a client is forced to give a feedback, why a client should think more about not damaging freelancer's ranking but not about helping other clients and good freelancers by providing an honest feedback? If a job was a test and you didn't like the performance, give a 1-star and write about it. Other clients will consider your feedback. Giving a 5-star feedback to someone who deserved none is unfair to other freelancers, who are excellent.

Do teachers grade students at A+ in order to help them to find a  job?

One reason not to leave a feedback is that a freelancer "might not be on your wavelength, but could be on the same wavelength as another client“ as Nichola said.  I give a 5-star and pay anyway.  I don't like to damage his/her rating, because my job was too difficult to a freelancer. But I feel bad that I am forced to lie. A job is actually not done correctly and I need to find someone else for the same job. It is difficult to find someone else if I don't trust the ranking system? Elance was more obvious and helpful to a client in this respect.

I agree with Yaron  and Nichola L:
"... a client should be allowed to be neutral, so that a freelancer is not condemned for no feedback. A client irritated by a mandatory form may well check the boxes emotively, which could be extremely detrimental to the freelancer's ratings."

My advice to a client:
1. Divide a large job by small stages and pay for these stages. Every stage can become a “test” in a complex project. Never  put total amount for a whole job in an escrow. Always take time to inspect  the result.


2. Be honest in ranking. Help another client!  I had many freelancers asking me for 5-star. After reading this post, I decided to change my attitude and to be honest in order to help a Client and to be fair to really good freelancers.

Community Guru
Suzanne N Member Since: Aug 15, 2012
26 of 40

@tanya s wrote:

The system might be wrong. However, if  a client is forced to give a feedback, why a client should think more about not damaging freelancer's ranking but not about helping other clients and good freelancers by providing an honest feedback? If a job was a test and you didn't like the performance, give a 1-star and write about it. Other clients will consider your feedback. Giving a 5-star feedback to someone who deserved none is unfair to other freelancers, who are excellent.

Do teachers grade students at A+ in order to help them to find a  job?


 Tanya,

 

I don't believe all test jobs should be marked low. I gave a guy a 5 star the other day for a job he did and it was not what I was looking for. He had good communication, delivered on time, did a good job at what I ask him to do but the writing was not the style I was looking for. It was a test job and I paid for it. He did not deserve to be marked down because "I" didn't hire him for a longer project. It just was not what I was looking for.

 

Yes teachers give A+ to students when they might not have deserved it. It may be for effort, or how they struggled or otherwise.

 

I do believe if someone was bad at communicating, was late with the work, or did a crappy job completely it should be marked honestly. The reason for the JSS and us being forced to ask our clients to close a contract and leave feedback is due to the system was abused in the past.

 

The problem with the system now is it is still open for abuse. From both sides.

Community Guru
Evelina H Member Since: Jan 29, 2015
27 of 40

I've been quite vocal about the 'no feedback' issue. Either a freelancer is good or bad, OR, just like Yaron says, the client can be neutral. How is it possible that a neutral feedback (or no feedback) suddenly becomes bad for the freelancer and in reality hurts their profile? It's mind-boggling.

 

Yes, we all know the reasoning behind receiving feedback - ensure trust, keeping our profiles well-maintained and striving for perfection (100% JSS), etc. But in reality, if a client is really neutral about a freelancer, he or she should just remain neutral, no matter how many hours s/he spent with the freelancer. Pay the freelancer for the job, and farewell. No strings attached. Heck, the client may just be done with it and move on. Not everyone has opinions about everyone else. I'm neutral about some of my clients.

 

Unfortunately, in Upwork's world the lack of feedback is BAD! Bad freelancer! Here's an F for you!

 

Talk to me about Upwork logic. More and more do I feel like an employee here, who's constantly trying to please the Big Green Boss just so I get a candy in the form of a 5-star rating or some good feedback. Every time I close a contract I'm honestly afraid that the client may leave something nasty (although they've been nice to me all the time), or leave nothing. Not to mention the private feedback. It does feel like waiting for exam results! Pffff... Don;t you just hate it! Smiley Happy

 

Yet I never beg for feedback even if that fully ruins my profile! It's been said many times, it's super unprofessional! But the fact that freelancers are forced to be successful and still have that feedback means that (my guess is) many ARE actually pleading for feedback. 'Please, sir, leave me some feedback, please, PLEASE!!', it's almost like a street beggar asking for money. Seriously?

 

I am very very sorry I didn't start freelancing earlier, in the good old oDesk days, when there weren't such strict rules. There used to be bad freelancers and good freelancers. Today we have the glossy JSS and other new metrics, and there are still bad freelancers and good freelancers. If anyone can help me see how these rules, metrics and so on help us all getting better, you're golden!

 

P.S. I so wish that Upwork would reconsider the negative weight of the 'No feedback' scenario.

Community Guru
Barbara W Member Since: Sep 10, 2015
28 of 40
I spoke with CS about this today and was assured that a lack of feedback will only affect us if it represents the MAJORITY of our contracts, as it gives the impression that the freelancer is nothing special. I agree with this I suppose.

They also assured me that, if a client has multiple contracts with a freelancer, and only leaves feedback for the last one, the score will also be applied to the previous contracts as a rehire assumes satisfaction, and they give us the benefit of the doubt that we have been consistent.

Hope this helps someone - it was reassuring to me.
- Barbara Herrera -
Community Guru
Mariska P Member Since: Apr 27, 2015
29 of 40

Thanks Barbara! 

 

I think that no feedback shouldn't reflect poorly on the freelancer..period. 

The freelancer could have been more special than God and the client still wouldn't want to leave feedback in many cases. That shouldn't be held against the freelancer.

 

Upwork has got to come better than that. 

Active Member
Deborah W Member Since: Oct 10, 2016
30 of 40

This is a terrible system and  reason to stop using Upwork.  If I don't feel I can assess someone's skills I should not be forced to choose between  hruting them and providing bad information to future employers.

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