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jccaito7
Community Member

Why do Freelancers Change Price After Bidding?

Hi everyone,

 

I've recently started using Upwork to hire some freelancers, and I've run into an issue after posting a job and then getting some proposals. 

 

I post a job with a fixed price of $10 and I receive several proposals with the bid of $10. After messaging the freelancer, I decided to send them to offer, only to have them respond that they would like to increase the price to $100. 

 

When asked why they bid $10 or responded, they said they didn't up in a price and that it just defaulted to $10. I don't understand this. Seems like I wasted time on trying to hire someone that wouldn't do the work for that price.

 

Is there something I'm missing here? Am I misunderstanding how this works?

ACCEPTED SOLUTION

In this case it should be quite easy for you to figure out how long it takes. Add 1h to be nice and define a hourly rate you are willing to pay. This is something for an hourly project.

View solution in original post

33 REPLIES 33
yitwail
Community Member

John, it's true that $10 would be filled in, if the budget is $10, but the freelancer can change it to $100 before sending you a proposal, so either they're wasting your time, as you said, or the freelancer is too new to the platform to be aware that the bid can be adjusted. EIther way, you should realize that with the exception of new freelancers who haven't been hired once and will take practically any job at any price, for $10 you'll likely get poor quality work unless the job is extremely simple. After Upwork deducts its 20% fee, the freelancer makes $8, so ask yourself how much work would someone with skill be willing to do for $8?

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce
jccaito7
Community Member

Thanks for the quick reply, John. 

 

Yeah, this freelancer said they were new to Upwork, so maybe they just don't understand how this works. I don't know. And thanks for the heads up on the $10. Just looking for someone that can do some pretty straight forward data entry, and trying to find the going rate for certain jobs, so learning as I go on how much to offer. Really appreciate the help!

 

 


@JOHN Charles C wrote:

Thanks for the quick reply, John. 

 

Yeah, this freelancer said they were new to Upwork, so maybe they just don't understand how this works. I don't know. And thanks for the heads up on the $10. Just looking for someone that can do some pretty straight forward data entry, and trying to find the going rate for certain jobs, so learning as I go on how much to offer. Really appreciate the help! 


Hi, sometimes with fixed-price the job's scope isn't clear enough, I just bid Client's budget but clearly mention that is a placeholder, fail to do that is very unprofessional (bait and switch?).

You can avoid this problem by posting jobs as hourly contracts instead of fixed-price contracts. If you simply hire freelancers to do hourly work and pay them their posted hourly rate, then you don't need to worry about this.

 

I understand that fixed-price contracts can seem appealing because you know the final price from the beginning. But the fixed-price contract model allows for less flexibility and usually does not yield the highest-quality results.

Another thing is that after learning more about the job, the freelancer has realized that it's more complicated/ time consuming and worth more.

I would assume that most freelancer believe the $10 are a placeholder and continue with it until the scope is clear. In some cases $10 is not even enough to sit down and spent time writing a proposal.

 

If you want to reliable proposals, you have to share as much information as possible in the job description. If you decide to make an hourly job, you can limit the weekly hours, e.g. if you think it only takes 3h do not allow 30. Some freelancers might try and take adventage from it.

 

You can also try the other way around to find a realistic rate: Offer $200 in the job description and check the proposals. I often apply for jobs which "pay too well" with a serious proposal and got hired in 80% of these cases.

re: placeholders

As a freelancer, I can tell you that I was wasting so much time looking for jobs that I've changed my searches to only include jobs at the Expert level and over $100. I'm aware I'm passing "placeholder" jobs by, but I simply didn't have time to sort through all the job posts to find them. I recommend you post the level of expertise you truly want, and the $ you're truly willing to pay for good work. From having seen it from the freelancer's side, if I ever hire that's how I'd do it -

 

Denise

shamin07031
Community Member

Hello JOHN Charles,

 

This is actually a boring thing. As my experience, I want to say that people who increase the price after bidding they are really not professional. They westing client time. 

 

I think you give a note to your job post description that should be "if anyone doesn't like to work at this price then don't bid". If you are wasting my time then I will report about you. Because my requirement was clear.

I've raised my bids substantially and still gotten the job. A lot of clients are here because they don't know much about the job they need completed, so it makes sense that they also don't understand the work and time put into that job.

It comes down to the client and what quality of work they would like. Many understand that if they want high quality work that it comes at a price. I've had very few issues with clients rejecting my bid once we've gone over in detail how long it will take and the effort needed to put forth on the freelancer's (my) part.

So while I understand the frustration, many of us do need to somewhat educate the client on the work involved. If they still only want to pay me $15/hr after the chat, I don't take the job. And I always bid lower here than what I charge from my own site, so I'm not trying to waste anyone's time. I'm trying to save them money.


@Shamin R wrote:

Hello JOHN Charles,

 

This is actually a boring thing. As my experience, I want to say that people who increase the price after bidding they are really not professional. They westing client time.

 

I think you give a note to your job post description that should be "if anyone doesn't like to work at this price then don't bid". If you are wasting my time then I will report about you. Because my requirement was clear.


If you want to hire only bottom of the barrel freelancers, sure. If you want someone good, this is not the way to find them.

Hi Jess,

 

Yes you are right. Thanks for your advice.

jccaito7
Community Member

Sorry, but I cannot follow the link:

You are not authorized to access this page.

Guess the link didn't work. Here's the posting:

*** Edited for Community Guidelines ***

In this case it should be quite easy for you to figure out how long it takes. Add 1h to be nice and define a hourly rate you are willing to pay. This is something for an hourly project.

First of all no one in their right mind even from the poorest of poor contry would search then visit 500 websites, pull up name, fill the stuff,  pay Upwork 20% + the transaction fees they would incur in moving their money to their home country would do it for a whopping $10.

 

If that is all you want to pay, put a note in your posting that $10 is the final price and that is all you would pay.

 

You are wasting time.

I think no one in their right mind would believe $10 is the final price. So why do they propose with $10 instead of giving a serious rate. I would exclude everybody using $10 in their proposal from further discussion. Those who do this kind of work on a regular basis know how long it takes and that should reflect their proposal.

I hired someone to pull 200 for me last week at $10 with no problem, so I thought that maybe I set the price too high. This time I went for 500 to see if I would get replies. I'm trying to find the going rate for something like this. There seems to be some freelancers on here that will accept very low pay for data entry, just to start getting some reviews. For a project like this, I didn't necessarily need 'quality' work, just someone that was willing to do the job.

petra_r
Community Member


@JOHNNY C wrote:

There seems to be some freelancers on here that will accept very low pay for data entry, just to start getting some reviews. For a project like this, I didn't necessarily need 'quality' work, just someone that was willing to do the job.


 Just because there are freelancers desperate enough to do it does not mean clients necessarily have exploit that desperation.

 


@JOHNNY C wrote:

I hired someone to pull 200 for me last week at $10 with no problem, so I thought that maybe I set the price too high. 


If I was about to pay $1000 for a job that I may get done for $800, I would stop and think.

 

If I was about to spend $10 for 200, 300 or 400 data entries, the idea that I could exploit people even more and pay less, or get more for the price of three Starbuck drinks would make me want to puke out of shame.

 

I wouldn't tell anyone. Certainly not on a public forum.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

10$ for a project = 3 cups of coffee, or 60% of the minimum wages in California. I don't get projects like this.

 

I've been in the other situation: asking price 120$/h (50% of a standard consultant in that region in the US, with a PhD and work experience in the requested domain, including show of competence for the project) to get offered only 35$/h. So expectattions should be realistic on the side of clients.

 

A much better approach would be (comment for Upwork): 

no $ indicator: I pay minimum wages (as they are valid in my area)

$  indicator: I am willing to pay  will pay at least 20$/h

$$  indicator; I will pay at least 50$/h

$$$ indicator; I am willing to pay at least 90$/h (than a statement like: I'm willing to pay more for the best freelancer makes sense)

 

People know what they can expect, and what they should apply to/can expect when they put out an offer. You don't get gold for the price of copper

Freelancers try to make a living out of this platform, not just buy a cup of coffee

You should just have returned to your first freelancer if you were happy with the result.

 

You conducted an experiment by trying to get more work done for the same amount. The result of it is this discussion. Next time try something else e.g. pull 5000 for $50. I am really interested in the result. If you want to know what rate to offer just check what other clients pay. You find requirement such as pull 30+ leads per hour. I am not doing that job, so I do not know how long it takes. But it gives you an inidicaiton.

 

Keep in mind that freelancers have used there connects to get in touch with you. Exploiting them might save you some money now but your reputation as client will suffer. Freelancers can see how much you are willing to pay and work according to that. No matter how desperate.

Maybe there was no problem for you to pay someone  about $6 after all deductions (Upwork, Vat, Paypal, Currency change, income taxes) for visiting 200 different sites and accurately transfer the data to an excel spreadsheet. I wonder if the opposite site feels the same.

Not here to judge, but this looks like job that takes at leats few hours 4-5 minimum, so basically you are looking for someone to do a Job for $1/hour net.
Would you work for $1 per hour? Would you work for $7 considering purchase power parity?
Is $900 a good monthly salary in USA?

I undesratnd there may be some freelancers quite desperate to get any job here only to get feedback and their JSS, but should ones rely their Upwork hiring strategy on abusing it?

What I recommend is :
Give this task a try, and spend an hour doing it by yourself, then try to estimate time that needs to be completed, you can aplly some discount rate due to learning curve and then come up with reasonable price. I guarantee few additionall bucks will get you better satisfaction on the job outcome.


Last but not least : quality.
Do you expect freelancer  to do a double check on 200/500 rows for $6,5? 
Cause this is an idditionall 2-3 hours.
Are you going to use this data for further purpose? Contacting clients, etc?
What if you pay $10 and get 50% errors. Is it worth a risk?

Regards
Arkady




Prashant:

While I agree that this seems like quite a bit of work for the amount offered, I do not know that nobody would agree to do this.

 

If the client offered this amount and had people do this job, he might find success. He might not.

 

There are a wide variety of freelancers on this platform.

 

Maybe he could experiment with that contract, and also with variations on it, such as offering $100 for 500 sites, or offering $10 for 50 sites.


@JOHN Charles C wrote:

Guess the link didn't work. Here's the posting:

 

**edited for Community Guidelines**


This is the tricky part, bid low with a promise of more work, personally, I don't like this part nor would fall for it either.

I know there are desperate freelancers out there who would take this job. What would be great would be actually paying them a decent rate instead of taking advantage of that desperation.

I can't imagine posting a job that would likely take hours for ten dollars and just hoping someone would be desperate enough to take it. I guess many of us have been that desperate freelancer at first. For me, it was worth it, (and my client legitimately had no more money and needed help) but many get stuck being cheap labor and never move up. There's a human element here. I know that it's business but there's still a human at the other end of that screen.

 

Edit- I would like to add that this goes both ways. There are freelancers who take advantage of kind clients, and that's messed up, too. That sort of freelancer has no place here. But yes, the client asking for cheap labor does have a place here because that's just the market. I get that. I just tend to try to ensure that my clients don't lack empathy before I begin working with them, and I suggest that everyone else do the same. If you're a client and your freelancer is trying to squeeze more money out of you, close the contract and leave honest feedback. 

 

Sorry. Went off on a bit of a tangent there. I just think the impersonal nature of remote work sort of has some of us forgetting about the person with whom we're working.

Doesn't Upwork have $3 min./hr for hourly projects?  Here one has to look for 500 sites and do stuff.  Even if each site takes 5 mins, it will be 2500 mins.  That is more than 40 hours of work.  Looking for cheap labor is one thing, but as Melisa noted the person at the other end is a human.  Those of us who are fortunate to live in 'First World' countries should show a little compassion and 'Be Human'.

 


@Prashant P wrote:

Doesn't Upwork have $3 min./hr for hourly projects?  Here one has to look for 500 sites and do stuff.  Even if each site takes 5 mins, it will be 2500 mins.  That is more than 40 hours of work.  Looking for cheap labor is one thing, but as Melisa noted the person at the other end is a human.  Those of us who are fortunate to live in 'First World' countries should show a little compassion and 'Be Human'.


If you do the maths 40 * $3 you have $120 not $10. For some people that would be enough for a weeks work for me it would just pay the food.

Yes, we live in different places and I sometimes do envy freelancers in low cost counties because I could take more time off with my income and still have more that enough money, but on the other hand I have daycare for my kid, 48 weeks parental leave with 100% income, and a functioning medical system available 24/7. Do I really want to miss out on that?

And don't assume that the only reason freelancers work on jobs is for the money.

 

Money is a valid reason to work on a job. It is not the only reason.


@Preston H wrote:

And don't assume that the only reason freelancers work on jobs is for the money.

 

Money is a valid reason to work on a job. It is not the only reason.


 Bitte? Was?

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


@Preston H wrote:

And don't assume that the only reason freelancers work on jobs is for the money.

 

Money is a valid reason to work on a job. It is not the only reason.


 Oh come on Preston!  Yes there are jobs that are exciting and some would do it for a challenge.

 

But this job?  It is less exciting than watching the grass grow.

Prashant: That's a good point.

 

What I said was a general observation, not something that I meant to apply to this particular job in question.

 

Having said that... We might keep in mind that some new freelancers will take on less-than-ideal jobs in order to "get their foot in the door" in terms of having a work history.

 

Not that I'm recommending doing a job like this data entry job for that reason. But it's something to keep in mind when pondering what kinds of jobs Upwork freelancers will agree to, at rates that might not interest you yourself.


@Melissa C wrote:

 There's a human element here. I know that it's business but there's still a human at the other end of that screen.

I had tears reading your comment, about the human sitting on the other side of the screen.
Sadly most people tend to forget this nowadays..

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