🐈
» Forums » Clients » Re: Work diary question as a Client?
Page options
a091b212
Community Member

Work diary question as a Client?

I am reviewing the work diary of a Freelancer and it shows screenshots with a green bar.  That is, I assume, the time that I am being charged for.  But what are the grayed out sections?  For example, on the attached image it shows green from 2 AM until 3 AM, and then nothing until 3.50 AM.  What determines the time I am being charged for - is the Freelancer having to "clock in" or "clock out" in order for the time to be counted as billable?  Capture.PNG

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
tta192
Community Member

You are not being charged for time between 3:10 to 3:50. That's either because the freelancer clocked out during that time, or the time tracking application determined there simply was not enough activity (mouse/keyboard). The freelancer can also delete a time segment manually if they wish.

View solution in original post

16 REPLIES 16
tta192
Community Member

You are not being charged for time between 3:10 to 3:50. That's either because the freelancer clocked out during that time, or the time tracking application determined there simply was not enough activity (mouse/keyboard). The freelancer can also delete a time segment manually if they wish.

a091b212
Community Member

Thanks Andrei! 

florydev
Community Member

The grey part in that screenshots are where your freelancer did not charge you time.  They could in theory go back and add manual time (assuming you allowed it) if this is the current week (they cannot when the timesheet enters the review period).  Manual time is yellow instead of green.

 

The screenshots come from a tool that runs on their computer and periodically takes a screenshot and also monitors their time.  It also keeps track of the amount of activity they perform (keystrokes and mouse movements) and that is the green marks next to the time are.  They can run the tool or stop the tool as they like but the tool will not take a screenshot if the person is not active.

 

The green bar above also includes a memo they can provide about what they are working on.  You should tell your freelancer they should fill that out and change it with what they are doing.   It is really in their best interest to do so as well as providing you with that information.  

 

 

 

Mark, thanks, I very much appreciate the clarity!  

What activity do you think you can have while you are in a meeting or in a training or even in the 15 min break allowed from the client? 

Why our work diary shows inactivity of 2-4 min for each screenshot while we are still working, for example, reading emails, answering calls fo customers etc?

 

Why are we not being paid properly? You can not assume that we are not working because that would be a big offense to all of us and more than this to our clients.

Do you think our clients are so stupid and pay us if we do not meet their expectations?

Please don't come out with the excuse that there are some freelancers charging clients without working hard to earn the salary.

If this ever happened it is not my problem I do not have to be punished on assumptions.  

Hopefully this time I will not be called a **Edited for Community Guidelines**with no rights and a **Edited for Community Guidelines**as I was called from you customer support  This is something I can not tolerate. 


Zhaklin B wrote:

 

Hopefully this time I will not be called a **Edited for Community Guidelines**with no rights and a **Edited for Community Guidelines**as I was called from you customer support  This is something I can not tolerate. 


I am fairly certain nobody in customer support has called you either "a slave with no rights" or "a thief."

So I must assume you are lying, on a public forum, out of sheer malice.

 

I hope Upwork handles such lies swiftly.


Zhaklin B wrote:

What activity do you think you can have while you are in a meeting or in a training or even in the 15 min break allowed from the client? 

Why our work diary shows inactivity of 2-4 min for each screenshot while we are still working, for example, reading emails, answering calls fo customers etc?

 

Why are we not being paid properly? You can not assume that we are not working because that would be a big offense to all of us and more than this to our clients.

Do you think our clients are so stupid and pay us if we do not meet their expectations?

Please don't come out with the excuse that there are some freelancers charging clients without working hard to earn the salary.

If this ever happened it is not my problem I do not have to be punished on assumptions.  

Hopefully this time I will not be called a **Edited for Community Guidelines**with no rights and a **Edited for Community Guidelines**as I was called from you customer support  This is something I can not tolerate. 


 

You are being paid properly in this scenario......

 

You are paid in 10 min segments, if it shows inactivity for 6 min during those 10 you will still be paid for the 10.

 

It is a tool so the client can see the work that the freelancer is doing (and upwork can make sure you worked correctly if they need to make a protected payment to you).

This doesnt ALWAYS work, as some jobs may involve no computer use, or limited mouse/keyboard usage. But, it gives some indication to the client about the work that is completed. If you are supposed to be typing for example and you log 60 min but are active for only 1 min in every 10 then the client can see that and question you accordingly (though Upwork will still bill for the 60 min)

 

If you dont like that system you are free to log MANUAL time - However, be aware that manual time comes with no protection from upwork over your hourly billing. But if you really hate the time tracker and benifits it brings, then i guess that is not an issue.

petra_r
Community Member


Clint J wrote:

I am reviewing the work diary of a Freelancer and it shows screenshots with a green bar. Capture.PNG


I might be concerned about this work diary (depending on what the freelancer does for you). Not because of the activity levels as such (it depends on what the freelancer is hired to actually do for you) but because the freelancer seems to have spent half an hour looking at one and the same page (2:10 to 2:40) and 40 minutes spent looking at another (2:00 to 2:10 and 2:40 until 3:10)

 

Can this be explained by the nature of the work that freelancer is hired to do (an hour and 10 minutes spent looking at two pages doing essentially nothing that involves the computer?)

lysis10
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Clint J wrote:

I am reviewing the work diary of a Freelancer and it shows screenshots with a green bar. Capture.PNG


I might be concerned about this work diary (depending on what the freelancer does for you). Not because of the activity levels as such (it depends on what the freelancer is hired to actually do for you) but because the freelancer seems to have spent half an hour looking at one and the same page (2:10 to 2:40) and 40 minutes spent looking at another (2:00 to 2:10 and 2:40 until 3:10)

 

Can this be explained by the nature of the work that freelancer is hired to do (an hour and 10 minutes spent looking at two pages doing essentially nothing that involves the computer?)


llol was waiting for you to say that. I was thinking "hmmmm it's the same 2 screenshots in 7 segments with very low activity."  I guess like you said it depends on what this person was supposed to do but YIKES on that diary if this freelancer was supposed to be doing more than staring at email.

a091b212
Community Member

Unfortunately all the work is supposed to be done on the computer - it involves creation of a newsletter and delivery of that by email.  However the screen shots all seem to show no activity and there is no way that is possible with the type of work.  Now what.....terminate the relationship with the freelancer and leave a reveiw that she was dishonest?  (I only posted 1 screen shot, it appears she did this for greater than 25 hours for the month)  Is there some way to dispute the charges based upon the screenshots? 

lysis10
Community Member


Clint J wrote:

Unfortunately all the work is supposed to be done on the computer - it involves creation of a newsletter and delivery of that by email.  However the screen shots all seem to show no activity and there is no way that is possible with the type of work.  Now what.....terminate the relationship with the freelancer and leave a reveiw that she was dishonest?  (I only posted 1 screen shot, it appears she did this for greater than 25 hours for the month)  Is there some way to dispute the charges based upon the screenshots? 


oooof 25 hours of the same screenshots? I wonder if she's botting. The activity levels are low too so bots will usually show high activity. If you dispute, you'll probably win but you can only dispute the last week and the review time is over as of yesterday. 

 

Has she produced anything? Usually, the people trying to scam string you along with nothing to show for it. They know that you can only dispute the previous week so they keep you on the hook for as long as possible. But if something is suspect and the freelancer is actually producing, then I suppose it's a different story. 25 hours of the same screenshot is pretty bad though.

a091b212
Community Member

Yes she did indeed produce work - she billed me for 50 hours, and in reviewing the activity journal roughly half of those hours appear to have no activity or there is activity of her working on projects for other people, reading her personal email, surfing various websites not related to my projects, etc.  Its unfortunate as I've worked with her for many projects and over the past year have just been on "cruise control" as far as trusting her to work an honest amount of hours and it appears that she has taken advantage of my trust by a huge amount of hours over the past few months.  I've questioned her about it and she respnded and admitted to "making mistakes" in the billing.  It makes me sick because I've enjoyed working with her but it has become evident that this wasnt an accident, it was a pattern over numerous months. 

petra_r
Community Member


Clint J wrote:

 ... half of those hours appear to have no activity or there is activity of her working on projects for other people, reading her personal email, surfing various websites not related to my projects, etc

 

I've questioned her about it and she respnded and admitted to "making mistakes" in the billing.  It makes me sick because I've enjoyed working with her but it has become evident that this wasnt an accident, it was a pattern over numerous months. 


Ask her how much she is willing to refund. (those work diary entries for work done on a computer are a disgrace)

 

If what she will refund is in line of what you think is fair, just close the contract with honest feedback AFTER you had the money back.

 

You can also dispute hours over the last 30 days (only)

a091b212
Community Member

Thanks for your reply.  The nature of the work that the freelancer is hired to do is creation of documents for us on the computer - there is no work that I can imagine would be done that is NOT on the computer.  As such, when I see screen shots showing the same screen over and over I am very skeptical that work is actually being done. Its very unfortuante, and I feel that this freelancer has been dishonest.  (I checked and she charged me for 50 hours for the month and looking at the work diary I see that significantly more than half appears to just be the same screen shot over and over) 

Clint:

The things you are describing and showing us do indeed sound suspicous. I don't blame you for being skeptical.

 

I would urge you to keep in miond the ability you have - as a client - to end a contract at any time, for any reason. Or for not reason at all.

 

Is it possible that you may need to end a contract with an underperforming freelancer WITHOUT getting any money back? That is completely possible.

 

But having the right people on your team is MUCH more important than getting money back for a specific questionable screenshot.

 

Consider these two scenarios and how they apply to you:

 

a) "I hired Patricia to work for us. I can't believe how awesome her work is! She seems to get twice as much done as any of our other V.A.s. When I look at what we spend in payments to her, compared to what we spend for the other freelancers we hired, she is clearly our most valuable team member. But then when I look at her work diary, I can't make sense of what I'm seeing. I see so many screenshots that look like duplicates of each other. And she seems to have many time segments showing low activity numbers. Also, she uses manually-logged time a lot."

 

b) "I hired Veronica to work for us. This has been a frustrating hire. Her work contains lots of mistakes. And each week she only finishes 6 to 8 documents. Other freelancers on the team finish at least 20 documents per week. I wondered if she wasn't using her time wisely, but when I look at her work diaries, I can't find anything suspicious. She has high activity levels all the time, and all of the screenshots show she is working on our project."

kat303
Community Member


Clint J wrote:

Thanks for your reply.  The nature of the work that the freelancer is hired to do is creation of documents for us on the computer - there is no work that I can imagine would be done that is NOT on the computer.  As such, when I see screen shots showing the same screen over and over I am very skeptical that work is actually being done. Its very unfortuante, and I feel that this freelancer has been dishonest.  (I checked and she charged me for 50 hours for the month and looking at the work diary I see that significantly more than half appears to just be the same screen shot over and over) 


Tracker does a lot of positive things for both the freelancer and client. On the client side it allows the client to track and actually see that the freelancer is working on their job. It records time, activity levels and even displays pictures. Clients can dispute hours showing anything else besides working on their jobs. They can also dispute manual hours even though they may agree to them. Finally they can limit the number of hours that can be recorded.- all to the client's advantage. 

 

You mention that there are screen shots of almost 25 hours of the same screen shot, hours showing the freelancer was reading email, surfing the internet etc. At the beginning of each week the client gets 5 days to review the freelances work on Tracker and dispute those hours. You should not care about how nice she is, how well you've both worked together or any other niceties. If she is overbilling you, then you need to cut ties with her. There are many HONEST freelancers here who could do the job as well as she, or maybe even better and be Honest with billing. Unfortunately you can't get a refund for all the hours she overbilled you throughout the year, but you do have 30 days to dispute "overbilled" hours including last weeks hours logged. 

 

And because Tracker allows you to see logged screenshots, you need to take advantage of that. You need to be diligent (with checking the screens shots during the 5 day period at the beginning of every week) with not only this freelancer but every freelancer who you hire however nice they may be. 

Latest Articles
Learning Paths