Wrong time being billed?

7d07e244 · ‎06-25-2018

If my freelancer starts working at 6:09am and finishes at 6:47am, why do i need to pay 50minutes, especially, when the activity level was super low at the very beginnig, this is 10 minutes less, and I am feeling a bit weird about it, how can i solve this issue? tell my freelancer only to start working at full 10-Minutes? is that the thing? because it's tacting in 10 Minutes?

thanks!

g_vasilevski · ‎06-25-2018

H Tamara,

The Upwork Deskto app is taking screenshots randomly in 10 minute intervals, and recording the activity of the freelancer in this time segments. You can negotiate with your freelancer or dispute the time that has a low activity so that you`re not charged. Keep in mind that on hourly contracts you're billed every Monday and this is one of the reasons why is always important to check the Work Diary. To learn more how you`re protected on hourly contracts check out this Help Article and this Help Article. Thank you!

~ Goran

emiguelina · ‎06-25-2018

@Tamara W wrote:
If my freelancer starts working at 6:09am and finishes at 6:47am, why do i need to pay 50minutes, especially, when the activity level was super low at the very beginnig, this is 10 minutes less, and I am feeling a bit weird about it, how can i solve this issue? tell my freelancer only to start working at full 10-Minutes? is that the thing? because it's tacting in 10 Minutes?

thanks!

Hi Tamara, as a freelancer, I delete those 10 minutes segments when activity level falls below 6 (let's say I start work at 6:04 kind of), that's why I always try to start and finish at the very beginning or end of a 10 minutes segment.

Having said that, if one of my clients asked me to delete those segments, of course I will, but I won't work with that client ever again, if it's only a 10 minutes segment in the whole week (I might have forgotten to delete that segment), of course, regarding your specific case it will depend on how many segments like this that freelancer's work diary has and the type of work, does it involve keystrokes all the time?

7d07e244 · ‎06-25-2018

In general we are talking about 2 emails and one quick research over a site were you put in 3 informations and it will give you out an option how to send a parcel... I find 50 Minutes is a bit too long for this, and kind of also a bit weird because tracked were 50 Minutes, screenshotted were 40 so I am kind of a bit confused..

but still 40 Minutes are very very slow for what I asked for

emiguelina · ‎06-25-2018

@Tamara W wrote:
In general we are talking about 2 emails and one quick research over a site were you put in 3 informations and it will give you out an option how to send a parcel... I find 50 Minutes is a bit too long for this, and kind of also a bit weird because tracked were 50 Minutes, screenshotted were 40 so I am kind of a bit confused..
but still 40 Minutes are very very slow for what I asked for

About Work Diary you can check here, last week hours can't be deleted, but you can dispute them, you have until friday to dispute last week hours. Dispute those 2 segments, and you'll have 30 minutes for the assigned task, or dispute all segments that you are no ok with, whatever you feel right.

jr-translation · ‎06-25-2018

@Tamara W wrote:
In general we are talking about 2 emails and one quick research over a site were you put in 3 informations and it will give you out an option how to send a parcel... I find 50 Minutes is a bit too long for this, and kind of also a bit weird because tracked were 50 Minutes, screenshotted were 40 so I am kind of a bit confused..
but still 40 Minutes are very very slow for what I asked for

My old computer was really slow at the end and I love my new one. It is hard to tell whether the freelancer was slow or maybe the computer.

I also hardly ever check the time before I start tracking, so maybe freelancer didn't.

In you case I would consider if this was a once time job or are you going to use the freelancer in the future. How much money are we talking about? If you cut of 2/5 of the freelancers tracked time while the freelancer believes to have done everyhting by the book, both of you might end up very unhappy and end up with negative feedback. No goes are screenshots indicating that the freelancers was busy following up on friends on Facebook etc.

On the other hand, if you have a job where you have an idea how long it takes you can consider its value and make it a fixed price job.

040a6720 · ‎06-25-2018

Hi Elba,

I have just seen your post and I am glad I have read the whole conversation.

I am having doubts on a freelancer I am working with and I am not sure if I am right or not...I just know that even though this person has an up to a certain amount of hours per week, they get all used up regardless on how much work there is to be done. This has never happened to me before and I start to get worried about the bills.

I attached an example of what the work diary looks like, without specific details of course for privacy - does it look quite normal in your view, when it comes to the nines? I want to be fair but I also kind of need to know my trust is in the right hands.

As a freelancer yourself, how do you see it?

Grateful of feedback in advance.

emiguelina · ‎06-25-2018

@Wouter J wrote:
Hi Elba,
I have just seen your post and I am glad I have read the whole conversation.
I am having doubts on a freelancer I am working with and I am not sure if I am right or not...I just know that even though this person has an up to a certain amount of hours per week, they get all used up regardless on how much work there is to be done. This has never happened to me before and I start to get worried about the bills.
I attached an example of what the work diary looks like, without specific details of course for privacy - does it look quite normal in your view, when it comes to the nines? I want to be fair but I also kind of need to know my trust is in the right hands.
As a freelancer yourself, how do you see it?
Grateful of feedback in advance.

Hi Wouter,

I can only talk from personal experience, I'm from a low barrel kind of freelancer (the data entry kind) with no real skills per se and from an overcrowded market, but, no matter what your field is you have to be a professional, that's all. A client-freelancer relation is, of course, a trustworthy one, and if you don't trust the person is working with you what is the point? According to your attached file, I would have deleted at least 4 of those segments, no matter if my hourly rate is low or hi, I just would have deleted them, my client will never know, but again, I always try to start and to finish within a 10 minutes segments to avoid that.

Having said that, you have to take into consideration the task itself, does it involve multiple keystrokes, perhaps with several minutes waiting for a response from the computer, reading, talking on the phone? My tasks always involve keystrokes most of the time (the reading part is always a challenge), that's why you have to take that into account, I don't know the specifics, but perhaps the task your freelancer is performing involves periods of times with no keystrokes, hence the low activity segments.

About the productivity, you have to talk to your freelancer. IMO if there is less work to be done ergo fewer work hours should be used, but using all the hours regardless of the amount of work assigned is not all right.

jr-translation · ‎06-25-2018

@Elba A wrote:
@Tamara W wrote:
If my freelancer starts working at 6:09am and finishes at 6:47am, why do i need to pay 50minutes, especially, when the activity level was super low at the very beginnig, this is 10 minutes less, and I am feeling a bit weird about it, how can i solve this issue? tell my freelancer only to start working at full 10-Minutes? is that the thing? because it's tacting in 10 Minutes?

thanks!
Hi Tamara, as a freelancer, I delete those 10 minutes segments when activity level falls below 6 (let's say I start work at 6:04 kind of), that's why I always try to start and finish at the very beginning or end of a 10 minutes segment.

Having said that, if one of my clients asked me to delete those segments, of course I will, but I won't work with that client ever again, if it's only a 10 minutes segment in the whole week (I might have forgotten to delete that segment), of course, regarding your specific case it will depend on how many segments like this that freelancer's work diary has and the type of work, does it involve keystrokes all the time?

To be honest I hardly ever look at my work diary. Once I am ready to start I begin tracking. For some clients I have to log into several pages to get started and sometimes I do that before I start tracking sometimes after.

I guess I would delete some low activity segments at the end and beginning of requested but I never really thought about it. I don't track time when I read messages so I guess in some cases I might get even if I would start the tracker before checking but while reading the activity level is also very low. On Saturday I received a message that I must log in and update all the changes asap. When I logged it it was just 1 segment that needed translation and I tracked 10 minutes to translate 1 word. If the client would have asked for the translation in a message I would just have given it to him without charging anything.

7d07e244 · ‎06-25-2018

Hi Thanks for the reply but i really don't find any help there, especiall because the dispute process is not correct... sadly,

also it would be very interesting for me to know how upwork schedules 50 Minutes, even tough she only worked 40 ( according to screenshots )? is it because she logged in early?

Thanks!

ladyelexia · ‎06-25-2018

The tracker is set up for those type of intervals, but you have to ask yourself, are you really that unhappy with their work that you would like to decrease their pay for 10 minutes due to low keyboard activity? Was the work that was turned in up to your expectations? Was the time tracked all relating to your project? What is low activity in your eyes? less than half a bar or just a couple less than a full bar? It really depends on the work, some projects have fewer keystrokes than others, but that doesn't not mean a person is not working.

petra_r · ‎06-25-2018

What hourly rate are you paying when one sixth of that amount is such an issue?

I mean I "get" that obody wants to pay "too much" but actually it tends to even out over hours because if a freelancer logs out before a screenshot was taken at the end of a segment that segment doesn't get billed or paid.

Personally I try and start towards the beginning of segments, or remove straggly bits.

As far as the freelancer's productivity is concerned, that is something you need to discuss with the freelancer. What did the freelancer say when you asked him or her?

That said, some people have very low hourly rates because they are rather slow or not very experienced (that's why their rates are so low.)

bobafett999 · ‎06-25-2018

Well Tamara. In your case there are two issues. First is you think the work should not take 'that long'. If it is such a simple task, why hire? Just spend those few mins during your coffee break and find that stuff yourself. Second is I am sure you are not paying $100/hr for such a low skilled job. Bickering about 1/6 of an hour ( & spending your time to microscopically go through the timesheet) is very very petty.