when dispute happens, my experience

[#1]

Hi, 

I ordered an app on upwork to a freelancer that didn't finish his job. It was supposed to last 2 months, 8 months after his job was still unfinished, and the app full of bugs. But you know what, Upwork won't take any responsibility in it. If you don't receive a product through paypal, amazon, or any other website on this planet, you are refunded. On upwork, they think different. Let's say they innovated! Not only you are not refunded, but you receive a miserable treatment, and you have to pay an arbitration. They will tell you that it's escrow US laws... Who knows. 

So basically, as a client, in case of hidden defects or late deliveries, on upwork you are just not protected at all. 

Plus, when you contact dispute department, nobody will tell you how everything works, they will expect you to ask many questions, but the worst is that you won't be able to chat, or have a call with them, and they response time is... 2-3 days, then it becomes clear that upwork is very scared of its own clients. So if like me you need to finish a project asap, upwork won't care and they'll take as much time as they can. 

As a good client (that I was), my disappointment is huge, this website is very well done, but upwork is just miserable when it comes about clients safety or disputes. In this situation their commission is absolutely unjustified, and I probably won't use upwork again. 

[#2]

Hi everyone, 

I'm just writing this for the people that are quite new to upwork so that they wouldn't do my mistakes, and so that they would know that upwork is a very good and in the same time a very bad platform. 

Basically on upwork everything goes well until you have problems with a FL. 

First thing you should be careful about is the hourly payment, and its automatic renewal which isn't clearly indicated (how convenient). If by mistake it's turned on, and the FL didn't work at all, you'll pay and not get refunded.

Second thing, about the dispute : you have to know what is what upwork calls a "dispute". Their way of functioning is about as backward as the middle age justice. If a dispute happens between a FL and you, they will ask an independent company called the AAA to make an arbitration. But you need to know how the AAA works... they just pick a random dude up, who doesn't know anything about the topic you're dealing with (for my part it was coding), who doesn't know anything about justice. That random dude will choose whether you are in the wrong or not. After making his choice based on whether he likes your name or not, whether he is in a good mood or not, he won't have to justify his choice to anyone. It's just a guy that is paid 700 $ to randomely choose a winner and loser. You will pay around 200 $, upwork 200 $ and the other party 200$. Incredible? Yes. It's like asking a monkey to make a choice, you'll have a 50% chance to win, and that's how upwork works.  

So before you spend a lot of money on upwork if that's your intention, you'd better not get into a dispute otherwise you'll make a jump of 2000 years in the past and trust me you don't want that. 

[#3]

Is this still the same dispute you were ranting about back in October?

Considering how completely wrong you got the facts about arbitration, presumably you did not go to arbitration back then?

[#4]

Seriously? Is that why you wrote? Just to say "you are wrong"... you need a little more than that. I made the dispute if you need proofs I can take screenshots, but if you are here just to blindly defend upwork and totally deny its defaults, then it's better saying nothing.

[#5]

Petra, I lost about 6 k $ in this, I spent a month in the arbitration I think I know what I'm talking about. If I'm wrong, you need facts because I'm telling what I've seen only. 

[#6]

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Andrew S wrote:

Petra, I lost about 6 k $ in this, I spent a month in the arbitration I think I know what I'm talking about. If I'm wrong, you need facts because I'm telling what I've seen onl

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Andrew,

Petra was not defending Upwork. She was stating a fact. Even if you have been through a dispute and arbitration, in these few posts you have given entirely the wrong information about how the process works.

In fact, in one of your first posts, you stated you did not have time to read the ToS because you were too busy. If you had read them, you could probably avoided all this dramatic hair-tearing.

You also stated in another post that you went on working off-site with a freelancer whose account had been suspended. This too is a serious violation of Upwork’s terms and conditions and I am surprised your account has not also been suspended.  

[#7]

Nichola, 

You do the same than Petra : you tell me that I'm wrong but you're unable to tell me why... welcome to upwork.

"ou also stated in another post that you went on working off-site with a freelancer whose account had been suspended. This too is a serious violation of Upwork’s terms and conditions and I am surprised your account has not also been suspended. "= > are you kidding me? If you suspended him, I'm allowed to work with him of course that's none of upwork's problem. By the way with this FL it went super fine. 

[#8]

Andrew and others,

A few replies have been removed or edited in this conversation as they were in violation of Upwork Community Guidelines. Please, note that personal attacks, deliberately disruptive and negative statements about Upwork or any other disparaging comments will not be tolerated in this Community.

The conversation has also been merged to the original thread about the dispute. I see that Upwork Customer Support, Mediation Teams and Vladimir have clarified how the dispute and arbitration process works. We won't be able to further discuss the freelancer's account status, however, this help article lists most common violations that can result in account suspension.

Thank you.

[#9]

Thank you Valeria,

Just one more point needs clarifying. I understood from the ToS, that a client cannot hire and pay a person who has been sourced from this site away from Upwork (unless they pay the opt-out fee). Does this rule apply to continuing hiring a freelancer who has been suspended? 

Just so that everyone is on the same page. 

[#10]

Nichola,

Yes, that applies to a freelancer who has been suspended. We will consider exceptions on a case by case basis.

[#11]

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Valeria K wrote:

Nichola,

Yes, that applies to a freelancer who has been suspended. We will consider exceptions on a case by case basis.

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_____________________________

??

What kind of exceptions? There seem to be  just too many loopholes in the ToS for it to be even halfway believable.

Some people can cheat academically, some people can't. Some clients can hire suspended FLs off-site, some can't. This really does smack of Animal Farm where some animals are more equal than others.

I've noticed that these exceptions to  infractions rarely apply to freelancers, but very often to clients who have spent a lot of money on the site despite their dodgy ethics. 

In this particular case, the message is seriously difficult to decipher. 

[#12]

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@kochubei_valeria wrote:

Nichola,

Yes, that applies to a freelancer who has been suspended. We will consider exceptions on a case by case basis.

 I can understand this applying to freelancers who are suspended temporarily, provided off course both the client and freelancer know that the suspension is temporary. 

However, how is Upwork affected when a freelancer's account is terminated? How can the ToS be made to apply to a client when his (former) freelancer is no longer working on the Upwork platform? Will Upwork hold the client to the non-circumvention rule for two years, reckoned from the date the contract with the terminated freelancer was established?  

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[#13]

It's too easy to remove what is uncomfortable for you to see...