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renata101
Community Member

All I want for Christmas from UpWork....

Over the past few years that I've been freelancing on this board, UpWork has given me the gift of being able to connect with clients I could not have dreamed of meeting. I get to find out about some of the coolest research projects that are being conducted all around the world. I really appreciate that UpWork was a place where my clients felt secure enough to bring their projects. 

However, I find that the way UpWork deals with approving profiles and removing fake ones really needs to be reconsidered. The current systems for flagging and ticket handling by T&S don't work well enough to handle the current volume of fake profiles that are auto-approved.

What I want from UpWork for Christmas is for someone to consider the bigger picture of what approving masses of fake profiles does for the system as a whole. My wish is that clients like mine can continue to feel more secure in what they're getting here. 

Can we start with these?

 

**Edited for community guidelines**




ACCEPTED SOLUTION

 "I'm a bit torn because, while I enjoy the humor aspects of the chances of octuplets occurring in the UpWork population, like a lot of the freelancers who are concerned about this, UpWork represents a valuable income stream. "

 

Renata, touche. Didn't the fighter George Foreman name all of his sons George Foreman? We have to protect Upwork clients from fraternal sibling fraud as well, don't you think? And what about those with so-termed multiple personality disorder -- another inroad for inbred identity theft (on a somewhat existential level no less). 

 

Time travelers are also a big problem. God knows, in the future, this is predicted to be a rampant new crime front and it's not certain if they are here already or not. I know a few repeat lottery winners who are highly suspect in this regard. (I don't know how many repeat lottery winners are on Upwork, but I'm sure the board of directors has considered this issue -- or I hope so.)

Frankly, I always thought Preston was a clone of some kind. You know, this gets a little complicated. I happen to be an identical twin (true enough), but the proper scientific designation for an identical twin is a mutant, not a clone. (Scientifically, identical twins are an anomaly.) Anyway, this gets us to a serious point that gets us back to the octuplets. If I had my druthers: Clones -- no! Mutants -- yes!

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40 REPLIES 40
prestonhunter
Community Member

Apparently not ALL of these profiles are fake.

 

One of them claims to be a "real person."

 

Screen Shot 2019-12-10 at 1.34.58 PM.png

I have marked many of these "multiple births", but I still see some of those marked out there, so quiet.


And then, come the apocalyptic messages of Joseph, who close accounts, without giving any reason, to people who, perhaps, do not deserve it, or just deserve a small scolding.

colettelewis
Community Member

This sort of thing keeps on being brought to light. Could Upwork please start checking these profiles and conducting suitable profile verifications - instead of targeting established freelancers who have verified their profiles multiple times. 

 

Please do not say this is to benefit our security, because it is not so. There are no humans behind this verification - any more than there is behind the "sanitization" process when sending files to clients.

As far as we know, it is biologically possible for a woman to give birth to identical octuplets. Furthermore, it could indeed be legal in Canada to give all 8 siblings the same first name. Furthermore, is within the realm of possibility that all 8 would decide to become freelancers on Upwork. And to save time and money, they might decide to re-use the exact same profile photograph. I don't see what the problem is.


Preston H wrote:

As far as we know, it is biologically possible for a woman to give birth to identical octuplets. Furthermore, it could indeed be legal in Canada to give all 8 siblings the same first name. Furthermore, is within the realm of possibility that all 8 would decide to become freelancers on Upwork. And to save time and money, they might decide to re-use the exact same profile photograph. I don't see what the problem is.


___________________________

What on earth are you talking about? This is extraordinarily offensive both against women and another country. And - even octuplets working on Upwork would need separate overviews. Preston - just stop - please. 

 

re: "What on earth are you talking about?"

 

Just speculating as to the origin of the original poster's collection of freelancers. (now deleted by a moderator)

 

If you don't think they're homonymous octopulets, then I have to assume you think they are fake profiles?


Preston H wrote:

re: "What on earth are you talking about?"

 

Just speculating as to the origin of the original poster's collection of freelancers. (now deleted by a moderator)

 

If you don't think they're homonymous octopulets, then I have to assume you think they are fake profiles?


Well, according to the Scientific American article (okay, it's not the most erudite source, but remember, no one's paying me for this...) there have been two known octuplet births in the US. 

What are the odds of that? Where's Eve? Maybe she can help us out with this. 


Nichola L wrote:

Preston H wrote:

As far as we know, it is biologically possible for a woman to give birth to identical octuplets. Furthermore, it could indeed be legal in Canada to give all 8 siblings the same first name. Furthermore, is within the realm of possibility that all 8 would decide to become freelancers on Upwork. And to save time and money, they might decide to re-use the exact same profile photograph. I don't see what the problem is.


___________________________

What on earth are you talking about? This is extraordinarily offensive both against women and another country. And - even octuplets working on Upwork would need separate overviews. Preston - just stop - please. 

 




Nichola L wrote:

Preston H wrote:

As far as we know, it is biologically possible for a woman to give birth to identical octuplets. Furthermore, it could indeed be legal in Canada to give all 8 siblings the same first name. Furthermore, is within the realm of possibility that all 8 would decide to become freelancers on Upwork. And to save time and money, they might decide to re-use the exact same profile photograph. I don't see what the problem is.


___________________________

What on earth are you talking about? This is extraordinarily offensive both against women and another country. And - even octuplets working on Upwork would need separate overviews. Preston - just stop - please. 

 


It really isn't.  Preston is using sarcasm to make a point Nichola...


Richard S wrote:

Nichola L wrote:

Preston H wrote:

As far as we know, it is biologically possible for a woman to give birth to identical octuplets. Furthermore, it could indeed be legal in Canada to give all 8 siblings the same first name. Furthermore, is within the realm of possibility that all 8 would decide to become freelancers on Upwork. And to save time and money, they might decide to re-use the exact same profile photograph. I don't see what the problem is.


___________________________

What on earth are you talking about? This is extraordinarily offensive both against women and another country. And - even octuplets working on Upwork would need separate overviews. Preston - just stop - please. 

 




Nichola L wrote:

Preston H wrote:

As far as we know, it is biologically possible for a woman to give birth to identical octuplets. Furthermore, it could indeed be legal in Canada to give all 8 siblings the same first name. Furthermore, is within the realm of possibility that all 8 would decide to become freelancers on Upwork. And to save time and money, they might decide to re-use the exact same profile photograph. I don't see what the problem is.


___________________________

What on earth are you talking about? This is extraordinarily offensive both against women and another country. And - even octuplets working on Upwork would need separate overviews. Preston - just stop - please. 

 


It really isn't.  Preston is using sarcasm to make a point Nichola...


Is it a point worth making?


Preston H wrote:

As far as we know, it is biologically possible for a woman to give birth to identical octuplets. Furthermore, it could indeed be legal in Canada to give all 8 siblings the same first name. Furthermore, is within the realm of possibility that all 8 would decide to become freelancers on Upwork. And to save time and money, they might decide to re-use the exact same profile photograph. I don't see what the problem is.


https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/ask-the-experts-why-are-o/

kochubei_valeria
Community Member

Hi Renata,

 

Thanks for sharing your experience and observations.

In the new year, we definitely plan to continue improving processes and programs that identify and action duplicate and fake profiles. That includes the process of automatic and manual review for new profiles. Also, verifying users' identities and continuing to do so periodically is another one of the many steps we are taking to combat the issue.

 

We'll make sure the profiles you noted are reviewed as soon as possible. If you'd like to report freelancer's profile for violations in the future, please do so privately via a support ticket or a private message to one of the moderators.

~ Valeria
Upwork


Valeria K wrote:

Hi Renata,

 

Thanks for sharing your experience and observations.

In the new year, we definitely plan to continue improving processes and programs that identify and action duplicate and fake profilesThat includes the process of automatic and manual review for new profiles. Also, verifying users' identities and continuing to do so periodically is another one of the many steps we are taking to combat the issue.

 

We'll make sure the profiles you noted are reviewed as soon as possible. If you'd like to report freelancer's profile for violations in the future, please do so privately via a support ticket or a private message to one of the moderators.


_________________________________

A lot of damage can be done between now and 31 December 2019.

 

A lot of damage has already been done by people who have continued to flout UpworkToS: People who have been continuously flagged by established freelancers either here or in pms to the moderators. And despite that, those people STILL have profiles - "several" profiles - on Upwork. 

 

What exactly will change from 1 January, 2020?

Yes, they could start right now, as a Christmas gift, as Renata said.
A good cleaning!


Valeria K wrote:

Also, verifying users' identities and continuing to do so periodically is another one of the many steps we are taking to combat the issue.

Yes, I understand that. I was personally asked to video verify twice in a span of less than two months. In addtion to the the eight profiles I posted that were "edited", I could easily find 50 more in the next 20 minutes that are along the same theme. What I would like is for UpWork to take some responsibility in finding and removing duplicates rather than relying on freelancers to flag them and performing some hit-and-miss selection process to decide which of the flagged ones to remove or not remove. I think you could video verify any of those "freelancers", but your T&S agents seem to prefer to re-verify people who have already been verified.  

Or do agents only get bonus points for re-verifying real people? I am afraid I don't quite understand the priorites here. 

And while we've been talking about it, all eight have been "edited" from my post, but no one has thought to alert marketing to take them down. 

Renata - I am curious to know how you find the fake profiles.


Joan S wrote:

Renata - I am curious to know how you find the fake profiles.


Google and the UpWork search engine. These are tools that are easily available to everyone including UpWork staff. I've written tickets with instructions about what I do, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of initiative in terms of adopting them. 

I have searched on Upwork for freelancers in my category but have never come across someone I thought was fake.


Joan S wrote:

I have searched on Upwork for freelancers in my category but have never come across someone I thought was fake.


If you came across this guy, and he said he was a translator full stack developer, would you flag him?

Screen Shot 2019-12-10 at 5.11.06 PM.png

 

And if you came across him more than once, say maybe four or five times, would you just think it was just his brother?

Hard to tell from just a picture.

I've found triplets, once. They had all done the same studies at the same university, but lived in 3 different countries. If I remember right, they had the same name. You can find very odd people on Upwork.


Luce N wrote:

I've found triplets, once. They had all done the same studies at the same university, but lived in 3 different countries. If I remember right, they had the same name. You can find very odd people on Upwork.


Well, if you can make it past the fried chicken ads, I found an article that suggests the odds of this (I'm just giving the screenshot, the link is below).

 
Screen Shot 2019-12-11 at 1.12.46 PM.png

https://www.livescience.com/52613-identical-triplets-quadruplets-science.html


Joan S wrote:

Hard to tell from just a picture.


Maybe this is a better picture:

Screen Shot 2019-12-11 at 2.15.10 AM.png
(However, the Rotten Tomatoes Tomatormeter only gives it 63%.)

Renata - Well, I don't know how you have so much time to find all these freelancers who you think are fake. I have so much work to do that I don't have the time for that. I often just can't find time to reply to messages on the community board.


Joan S wrote:

Renata - Well, I don't know how you have so much time to find all these freelancers who you think are fake. I have so much work to do that I don't have the time for that. I often just can't find time to reply to messages on the community board.


Joan, I don't have that kind of time either, and that's the point of this whole post if you did in fact take the time to read it. I found the initial eight and I know there are many, many, many more. I did the work in this case in an attempt to show how extensive the problem is. And for me, if I know there's a serious problem with something, I try to let people know about it before more damage is done. It's really time we stopped treating this like it was some sort of joke.

The point of my post is this: I think that seeing duplicates like this damages client trust in the platform. If I'm running into them, I'm sure clients are too. That concerns me and it really should concern you too. Otherwise, believe me, I wouldn't be investing the time in flagging them all individually.

Renata - I did take time out of a very busy day to read this entire post so I don't need a snide remark. And it does concern me if there are fake freelancer profiles on Upwork - but, unfortunately, that is somewhat the way of the world and it is why there is the old caution of "buyer beware."


Joan S wrote:

Renata - I did take time out of a very busy day to read this entire post so I don't need a snide remark. And it does concern me if there are fake freelancer profiles on Upwork - but, unfortunately, that is somewhat the way of the world and it is why there is the old caution of "buyer beware."


Good grief! "Buyer beware" is the last thing we want clients thinking about Upwork! Renata is right, the proliferation of fake profiles has gotten completely out of control and it's difficult to see, from where we sit, why UW isn't investing more attention and resources to address it. The main problem is not that they might succeed in their scams. The main problem is that smarter, more savvy clients -- the ones we all want to work with -- see them and think the platform is so riddled with fakery that it's not worth trying to use it. Not worth the time and effort likely required to pick through and find the real pros they want to work with.

 

If you disagree, fine. Why get personal about it? We're all busy. We all invest our time and energy where we think it matters most. 

What I meant, Phyllis, is that I believe freelancers need to vet clients and that clients need to do the same - just like in other areas of life. I was not trying to get personal with anyone although you always seem to have it in for me.


Joan S wrote:

What I meant, Phyllis, is that I believe freelancers need to vet clients and that clients need to do the same - just like in other areas of life. I was not trying to get personal with anyone although you always seem to have it in for me.


Well, yes, clients and FLs need to vet each other, especially in an online environment. But that's not the point of discussion here. The point is that a client coming on to the platform to search for qualified FLs is likely to see boocoodles of obviously fake profiles and decide it's not worth trying to find the help they need. They walk away. Nobody benefits. Meanwhile, there are measures UW could take to reduce the scale of the problem. So far, they choose not to and it's tremendously frustrating to many of us.

 

BTW, I don't "have it in for" you or anyone else. Whenever I think my two cents' worth can add to a discussion, I comment. When not, I keep it to myself. I never personalize things except in response to personal remarks by others. 


Joan S wrote:

Renata - Well, I don't know how you have so much time to find all these freelancers who you think are fake. I have so much work to do that I don't have the time for that. I often just can't find time to reply to messages on the community board.


We don't "find" them. They are glaringly obvious. Many are discovered because they come to the forums for help, thereby announcing themselves quite clearly. Before I offer help, I often look at their profiles first - invariably there are lies about everything: language, location, stolen overview or portfolio, fake photos, or all of the above. It's really quite easy to be aware of the fakes on this site, busy or not.

mtngigi
Community Member


Renata S wrote:

Over the past few years that I've been freelancing on this board, UpWork has given me the gift of being able to connect with clients I could not have dreamed of meeting. I get to find out about some of the coolest research projects that are being conducted all around the world. I really appreciate that UpWork was a place where my clients felt secure enough to bring their projects. 

However, I find that the way UpWork deals with approving profiles and removing fake ones really needs to be reconsidered. The current systems for flagging and ticket handling by T&S don't work well enough to handle the current volume of fake profiles that are auto-approved.

What I want from UpWork for Christmas is for someone to consider the bigger picture of what approving masses of fake profiles does for the system as a whole. My wish is that clients like mine can continue to feel more secure in what they're getting here. 

Can we start with these?

 

**Edited for community guidelines**





Ditto.

 

I have flagged (four times) a profile whose overview actually states that he's lying about his location, because he is really in a country that has sanctions against it.

 

Though we are told otherwise, flagging is useless.

 

I have pointed out to a mod (in a pm) that there are a multitude of profiles who appear to be single freelancers, but they're really agencies (stating so in their overviews). The mod was not interested in hearing about any of them.

 

Flagging is useless.


Virginia F wrote:


Ditto.

 

I have flagged (four times) a profile whose overview actually states that he's lying about his location, because he is really in a country that has sanctions against it.

 

Though we are told otherwise, flagging is useless.

 

I have pointed out to a mod (in a pm) that there are a multitude of profiles who appear to be single freelancers, but they're really agencies (stating so in their overviews). The mod was not interested in hearing about any of them.

 

Flagging is useless.


To be fair, I haven't always found that flagging is completely useless, but it often is really hit and miss. There are times when I've found that profiles have been taken down fairly quickly. But there are other times when I've flagged things multiple times and basically nothing has happened. However, recently, the problem is that there's such a proliferation of duplicate fakes, flagging them all individually isn't an option. 

I was talking to another freelancer about about the issue of duplicate fakes recently (like the whole Aussie Voice episode), and her response managed to capture the issue perfectly:  "Upwork should find a solution for this themselves, and not rely on charity work from frustrated freelancers." 


If this was my system, I would add an automatic profile photo checking algorithm, to make sure that every submitted profile photo is not the same photo as the photo of a freelancer already in the system.

 

This is very doable. I have implemented image-checking systems for clients. There are easy-to-use Perceptual Hash (pHash) libraries available. These can find matches even if the image is not the exact same image file, but is essentially the same image.

 

We see image matching all the time when we use Google Image search to find matches to existing image files.

 

We were poking a lot of fun at the fake freelancer profiles Renata found - all 8 of them using the SAME profile photograph.

 

This type of check can be automated. Upwork does not need employees to look at all of the photos coming in.


Preston H wrote:

If this was my system, I would add an automatic profile photo checking algorithm, to make sure that every submitted profile photo is not the same photo as the photo of a freelancer already in the system.

 

This is very doable. I have implemented image-checking systems for clients. There are easy-to-use Perceptual Hash (pHash) libraries available. These can find matches even if the image is not the exact same image file, but is essentially the same image.

 

We see image matching all the time when we use Google Image search to find matches to existing image files.

 

We were poking a lot of fun at the fake freelancer profiles Renata found - all 8 of them using the SAME profile photograph.

 

This type of check can be automated. Upwork does not need employees to look at all of the photos coming in.


Thanks Preston, 

I appreciate someone pointing out that this sort of screening is a viable option. I'm a bit torn because, while I enjoy the humour aspects of the chances of octuplets occuring in the UpWork population, like a lot of the freelancers who are concerned about this, UpWork represents a valuable income stream. For better or for worse, it currently supplies a significant chunk of my livelihood. And it gives me an opportunity to find interesting projects while I'm making a living, which is also something that's important to me.

However, I can see a lot of ways clients would be turned off using this platform. So instead of spending valuable resources implementing cutsey stars and rockets announcing how many times people have viewed my profile and the myriad of other half-baked add-ons Upwork has been implementing (not to mention the Talent Specialists) since its inception, I would really rather see the company focus on things that would help bolster a sense of security in the clients who are interested in hiring here. As far as I can see, that's something that really matters to my clients. 

I think putting more effort into preventing obviously fake profiles from being auto-accepted would be a step in the right direction.   

 "I'm a bit torn because, while I enjoy the humor aspects of the chances of octuplets occurring in the UpWork population, like a lot of the freelancers who are concerned about this, UpWork represents a valuable income stream. "

 

Renata, touche. Didn't the fighter George Foreman name all of his sons George Foreman? We have to protect Upwork clients from fraternal sibling fraud as well, don't you think? And what about those with so-termed multiple personality disorder -- another inroad for inbred identity theft (on a somewhat existential level no less). 

 

Time travelers are also a big problem. God knows, in the future, this is predicted to be a rampant new crime front and it's not certain if they are here already or not. I know a few repeat lottery winners who are highly suspect in this regard. (I don't know how many repeat lottery winners are on Upwork, but I'm sure the board of directors has considered this issue -- or I hope so.)

Frankly, I always thought Preston was a clone of some kind. You know, this gets a little complicated. I happen to be an identical twin (true enough), but the proper scientific designation for an identical twin is a mutant, not a clone. (Scientifically, identical twins are an anomaly.) Anyway, this gets us to a serious point that gets us back to the octuplets. If I had my druthers: Clones -- no! Mutants -- yes!


Anthony H wrote:

 "I'm a bit torn because, while I enjoy the humor aspects of the chances of octuplets occurring in the UpWork population, like a lot of the freelancers who are concerned about this, UpWork represents a valuable income stream. "

 

Renata, touche. Didn't the fighter George Foreman name all of his sons George Foreman? We have to protect Upwork clients from fraternal sibling fraud as well, don't you think? And what about those with so-termed multiple personality disorder -- another inroad for inbred identity theft (on a somewhat existential level no less). 

 

Time travelers are also a big problem. God knows, in the future, this is predicted to be a rampant new crime front and it's not certain if they are here already or not. I know a few repeat lottery winners who are highly suspect in this regard. (I don't know how many repeat lottery winners are on Upwork, but I'm sure the board of directors has considered this issue -- or I hope so.)

Frankly, I always thought Preston was a clone of some kind. You know, this gets a little complicated. I happen to be an identical twin (true enough), but the proper scientific designation for an identical twin is a mutant, not a clone. (Scientifically, identical twins are an anomaly.) Anyway, this gets us to a serious point that gets us back to the octuplets. If I had my druthers: Clones -- no! Mutants -- yes!


Thanks for making my day, Anthony! In honor of this special contribution, I've channeled my Guru powers to make you the solutions author of this thread. So your lovely mug will be gracing the Coffee Break solutions author leaderboard with Mary for the next month. Enjoy!

Clones -- no! Mutants -- yes!





Preston H wrote:

If this was my system, I would add an automatic profile photo checking algorithm, to make sure that every submitted profile photo is not the same photo as the photo of a freelancer already in the system.

 

This is very doable. I have implemented image-checking systems for clients. There are easy-to-use Perceptual Hash (pHash) libraries available. These can find matches even if the image is not the exact same image file, but is essentially the same image.

 

We see image matching all the time when we use Google Image search to find matches to existing image files.

 

We were poking a lot of fun at the fake freelancer profiles Renata found - all 8 of them using the SAME profile photograph.

 

This type of check can be automated. Upwork does not need employees to look at all of the photos coming in.



I have no idea of ​​programming, but I had already thought that something like that, perhaps it was not so "complicated".

So I appreciate you confirming that my "thought" was not so crazy 🙂
In fact, you can now search for a text in the search for freelancers.
Why doesn't Upwork use it automatically every time a new account is created? Between that and a recognition of photos, a good amount of scammers would be removed.

I would not want to suggest that checking new photos to see if they match existing photos is "easy" or "without effort." None of you are saying that. But it is "doable" or "viable." It would require some effort to implement, but it does not require "reinventing the wheel."

 

It is indeed possible that clients will notice fake profiles and/or duplicate profiles and have less regard for Upwork, or be less likely to hire hire.

 

I think the bigger problem these fake duplicate profiles pose is this:

 

Every fake profile represents a person or group of people who are more likely to be scammers trying to steal money from clients, or simply low-quality freelancers who may cause big problems for clients because the freelancer has no real accountability.

 

Upwork, particularly in its predecessor forms such as oDesk, originally did not care much one way or another about freelancer authenticity. The reason that Upwork has cracked down as much as it has (although clearly such efforts are not yet perfect)... is that freelancers with fake photos, fake names, fake locations, etc., were causing a disproportionate amount of problems for clients. Moreover, clients often complained specifically about the fake details.

With knowing that it is something "feasible", nothing of nuclear engineering or something like that, it is enough to think that Upwork can carry it out. And it does not.
Just now a duplicate profile has been discovered, in a matter of a short time, that it seems that the life of the "original" freelancer may be bitter.
And it has not been discovered by Upwork precisely.
They have to do something NOW.

Hi All,

 

A number of posts have been removed from this thread as they were off-topic and also included personal attacks. 

 

I realize that this thread is in the Coffee Break section. However, we'd appreciate if we could keep it on topic so we could be more productive keeping up with your reports and sharing your feedback/suggestions with the team.

 

Thanks!

~ Valeria
Upwork
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