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nancykz
Community Member

Anyone else like to grumble about the time tracker/work diary?

Just sippin' my morning coffee and complaining about the work diary. I'm top rated, 100% of clients would rehire me and all of my ratings are five-star. 

 

And yet if you look at my most recent work diary it shows that I had 2:10 "activity" level. Yes, because RESEARCH is a part of good content writing and something for which I should not just be paid but also applauded. Since many people just slap things together and I do a deep dive.

 

The client was thrilled with my work and immediately extended my contract and didn't ask a single question about the low activity but man does it get my goat. 

 

Anyway... thanks for letting me vent. Anyone else annoyed by this archaic metric?

 

Oh! And let me not forget the fact that you can't track on a chromebook which is my go to!

 

Done grumbling (for now)... share a pic of your dog.

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lysis10
Community Member

I don't do much research unless I'm writing something product specific, but when I am reading material I will use the down arrow key to scroll to show keyboard activity. Gotta do whatcha gotta do.

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34 REPLIES 34
lysis10
Community Member

I don't do much research unless I'm writing something product specific, but when I am reading material I will use the down arrow key to scroll to show keyboard activity. Gotta do whatcha gotta do.

nancykz
Community Member

I hadn't thought of that but have been doing it since, thanks Jennifer! It's really to appease my own neuroses... the clients never complain. I just find it a useless feature.

florydev
Community Member

When I am on an hourly project I use the time tracker almost exclusively and then when I have low activity for periods I was working I just fill in manual time.  The way I see the tt is a useful tool with new clients to ensure that things go smoothly and I get paid.  As I progress with a client I just use it to keep track of blocks of time when I know I am working.

 

If I ever have a long term client complain about my existing activity levels I will know what they really want is an employee they can micro-manage and so I will exist the situation as soon and as gracefully as I can.

 

I believe the tool is a small comfort to new clients afraid they are going to get cheated by unscrupilous freelancers.  But I wouldn't work for long with a client that took it seriously.

nancykz
Community Member

Oh yeah, if anyone ever nitpicked about it that'd be a red flag. I totally get that this is a ME issue...

gilbert-phyllis
Community Member

I've earned over $55k on hourly contracts so far, logging hours manually. It's not for everybody and it's not for every type of work. My research projects typically take several weeks or months and I can ease into the project and the relationship and establish mutual trust before either one of us has too much exposure. I also have decades of experience that serves me well (99% of the time) in sussing out which clients to even begin with. For me, it's worth exchanging the payment protection for not having futz with the tracker. It's too distracting. If my work was mainly short-turnaround, one-off projects I would probably have a different perspective.

My clients don't even seem to know that they can look at my work diary. But I agree with Jen. I'll click around if necessary if I'm looking for stock photos or whatever.

lysis10
Community Member


Kelly B wrote:

My clients don't even seem to know that they can look at my work diary. But I agree with Jen. I'll click around if necessary if I'm looking for stock photos or whatever.


They can see your computer name, and all of my computers on the network have inappropriate names. 😂😂😂😂😂

 

Can't even type my main work machine name on here cuz it'll  just get removed. lol

CRIKEY they can see our puter names??? My current client uses Slack and (sorta) taught me how to use it as well, to track the project and so on. Well, he nearly saw a whole lot more than the computer name when I landed in chat with MY CAMERA ON - which most of these things never do! THANK Gawd it was pointing at the ceiling - because yours truly works commando.

 

Might as well just give it up on some days. :} LOLOL


Catherine L wrote:

CRIKEY they can see our puter names??? My current client uses Slack and (sorta) taught me how to use it as well, to track the project and so on. Well, he nearly saw a whole lot more than the computer name when I landed in chat with MY CAMERA ON - which most of these things never do! THANK Gawd it was pointing at the ceiling - because yours truly works commando.

 

Might as well just give it up on some days. :} LOLOL


Yes, my computer name is WorkHo 😎😎😎

Take those screenshots Upwork and get that computer name teeeheee


Catherine L wrote:

CRIKEY they can see our puter names??? My current client uses Slack and (sorta) taught me how to use it as well, to track the project and so on. Well, he nearly saw a whole lot more than the computer name when I landed in chat with MY CAMERA ON - which most of these things never do! THANK Gawd it was pointing at the ceiling - because yours truly works commando.


Ha ha. But I don't think "commando" means what you think it does. Otherwise it gives me a whole new understanding of how commandos work! 

nancykz
Community Member

I'm not sure mine do, either. It's more just that I find it frustrating and annoying (this is totally a ME issue). But now I'm using the down arrow trick haha.

Agreed. Agreed. Agreed.

a_lipsey
Community Member


Nancy K wrote:

Done grumbling (for now)... share a pic of your dog.


Since you requested it... My dog and his BFF. Yes, mine is the one on top. processed.jpeg

nancykz
Community Member

Nice! My dog Spreadsheet and your dog seem to have something in common: he's always standing over his bestie, Leroy, like that.

browersr
Community Member

I have never one time ever had a client ask about the work diary. At the same time I have never had the need to go look at it myself. All I care is that the time is being recorded and I do enter notes. That's it. I otherwise never click into the diary to look at activity because I don't care what it says and neither have any of my clients. Unless you are getting push back from your clients, I wouldn't give this a second thought. 

Agree with Phyllis -

Beyong me why pic is upside down - click on attachment so you don't get a headache.

 

 

L to R Keiki, Akela, OhanaL to R Keiki, Akela, Ohana

 

Aw! Thank you!

nancykz
Community Member

I need to follow this advice and stop looking!

andrews_jay
Community Member

Just because a client is paranoid, doesn't mean people aren't out to get them and they can't be a good client.  So to reassure the undetermined portion of clientel that checks the logs, I do the following.

 

I tend to use powerpoint as my project notebook, and if I going to be working AFK, often times I'll put a powerpoint slide on the screen in huge letters saying "Working in the shop" or something appropriate, so if they do happen to be checking the logs that it makes some sense to them why you were "inactive" but billing them heavily for the time.

david_fallows
Community Member

I won't do ANY User Experience work on Upwork at all, purely down to this reason. 70-80% of that work is me either stood at my whiteboard or drawing squares on pieces of paper and cutting them out and arranging them across my table. It's far too premium an offering to try and audit on an hourly basis. Even under a fixed price arrangement you could find yourself down a rabbit hole with the only way out to be through. 

 

It's utterly laughable when a client wants you to fix their "UX/UI" and expect it to be just a case of changing some boxes and icons and making things look pretty - especially when it's clearly obvious you're taking over rushed/incomplete/budget-starved work.

petra_r
Community Member


Nancy K wrote:

 

Done grumbling (for now)... share a pic of your dog.


IMG_8746.JPGmurph.jpg

vstuart
Community Member

I can't for the life of me figure out how to properly "quote" on here, my apologies in advance, but here's Gracie! (Apparently I can't figure out how to properly upload a photo either, ugh, turn your head sideways, she's pretty cute! )Gracie.jpg

bruce_dodds
Community Member

I bill manually.  I have never used the Time Tracker.  I can't stand the thought of it, frankly.  The whole approach encourages the worst instincts of a developer to code, code, code without thinking about what you're doing.

 

I spend time working on a project at the keyboard that's not productive, and I don't bill for that.  I spend time thinking about solutions away from the computer, and I do bill for that, a little.  I'd be very surprised if I'm the only developer who comes up with a design solution while turning a problem over in his head before falling asleep at night.

 

It seems that my clients have been pretty satisfied with the results.


Bruce D wrote:

I bill manually.  I have never used the Time Tracker.  I can't stand the thought of it, frankly.  The whole approach encourages the worst instincts of a developer to code, code, code without thinking about what you're doing.

 

I spend time working on a project at the keyboard that's not productive, and I don't bill for that.  I spend time thinking about solutions away from the computer, and I do bill for that, a little.  I'd be very surprised if I'm the only developer who comes up with a design solution while turning a problem over in his head before falling asleep at night.

 

It seems that my clients have been pretty satisfied with the results.


Even with writing it's hard sometimes because you're just staring at a screen or reading something and I am always afraid to have too many screenshots of nothing changed in the document. I have to keep clicking my keyboard keys, but you are right that it forces to you do anything without thinking just to make sure the screenshot is good. I try not to have more than 2 screenshots with the same paragraphs for fear that it could lose me money.

I thought it was just me coming up with the best of solution before falling asleep. 🙂

Its so nice to read different views on using time tracker. I personally dont like to use them. As I get too stressed thinking about the screenshots and keypd movement that I loose focus of the work that I am doing. 

aziz_92
Community Member

This is why I don't work with time traker, never have, and never will. If a client can't trust me then we shouldn't be working together anyways.

One can look at the time tracker app from a different angle. Definitely, for some clients it's a means to control a freelancer. Luckily, I've never met such a client in almost 6 years working here. Tracker is a great way of counting how much I've worked and how much I need to be paid.

 

When I wake up, I turn my laptop and resume my working virtual machine with time tracker on. I can work for several hours and then take a break. The app will automatically stop counting work time while still running. I can go for a walk with my family, or do home duties, or just watch a movie. Then I may feel desire to work and I simply switch to my working virtual machine.

 

I work 50-80 hours a week. It would be a huge pain in the neck to remember how much I worked. I'm free from remembering this. When I think on a task, which is often, I try to add manual time as soon as possible, so I don't forget about it.

 

I on contrary don't work with fixed-price contracts. I have several contracts where I develop big pieces of software. Tasks come and go. I do them and get easily paid without meddling with milestones.

 

I would be very glad to hear how others, especially developers, work on big projects under fixed-price contracts.

In my field, everyone always tracks their time.  I have worked in law firms where it was manual and I've worked in firms that had an electronic system.  Lawyers track their time and paralegals track their time, usually in 1/10 of an hour and rebill it to the clients. 

 

I love the tracker as it takes care of it for me and I never miss any time, which was always a problem with manual tracking. I can always go back and delete segments if I forget to turn the tracker off.  I am also a part time employee for an attorney and I use a time tracker for his work, as well.

I'm with Bruce.  Manual hours only and pre-established trust on both sides.

Not a developer. I accept both hourly and fixed-price contracts on UW. Off the platform, I do almost exclusively fixed-price. I don't use UW's time tracker but I have my own. It's the only way to keep track of how long things take, so I can put together accurate quotes. Every weekend, I run a time sheet and then, for any UW hourly contracts I worked on that week, log the hours manually. 

I appreciated everyone's POV on this. Perhaps I should be less dogmatic.
schardo
Community Member

This is why I don't do hourly projects. I could probably make more money if I did, but I take a million breaks a day. I rarely work a full hour at a time, ever. I just charge what I think the project is worth based on the topic, and how much of a pain in the you-know-whats it's going to be. 

 

That time tracker stresses me out in all kinds of ways. Maybe one day I'll get over it. 

lysis10
Community Member


Sarah C wrote:

This is why I don't do hourly projects. I could probably make more money if I did, but I take a million breaks a day. I rarely work a full hour at a time, ever. I just charge what I think the project is worth based on the topic, and how much of a pain in the you-know-whats it's going to be. 

 

That time tracker stresses me out in all kinds of ways. Maybe one day I'll get over it. 


That's one reason I prefer hourly. The main reason is payment protection and I get paid for the hours I work without getting stiffed or worrying about scope creep, but I also like hourly because 4 hours is 4 hours of work. I have a bad habit of turning 3 hours of work into an all day thing if it's escrow.

11f7a755
Community Member


Jennifer M wrote:

Sarah C wrote:

This is why I don't do hourly projects. I could probably make more money if I did, but I take a million breaks a day. I rarely work a full hour at a time, ever. I just charge what I think the project is worth based on the topic, and how much of a pain in the you-know-whats it's going to be. 

 

That time tracker stresses me out in all kinds of ways. Maybe one day I'll get over it. 


That's one reason I prefer hourly. The main reason is payment protection and I get paid for the hours I work without getting stiffed or worrying about scope creep, but I also like hourly because 4 hours is 4 hours of work. I have a bad habit of turning 3 hours of work into an all day thing if it's escrow.


99% of the time - which incidentally is my JSS score- I don't apply for hourly contract. 


A. I do not want "compromising" screenshots to be recorded.

B. I have my own rhythm and flow of getting the job done. If I turn on the music on YouTube while working on project and it gets recorded, then it may give client another excuse to refuse payment. Again I never used Desktop App before and I know you can edit out the screenshot, still I find it to be intrusive and then you have to do tedious logging. 

 

Because if you don't then you may not be proctected for hourly bid. So I just think it is simpler for me to do fixed contract. At any rate, landing clients is proving tad difficult regardless. 

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