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azezmutairi
Community Member

Bad/non-helpful replies on freelancers community discusion from authors

Hi there, do you suggest giving limitations on the replies of the top authors and members on their replies. Do you agree that they need to know how to provide solutions than writing something that is not helpful for freelancers?

41 REPLIES 41
g_vasilevski
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member

Hi Abdullaziz,

 

This is a public Community and its active members are free to post comments here as long as they are within the Community Guidelines. If you feel like any post violates the Community Guidelines, feel free to flag it as inappropriate and our team of moderators will review it. Thank you.

~ Goran
Upwork
florydev
Community Member


Abdullaziz A wrote:

Hi there, do you suggest giving limitations on the replies of the top authors and members on their replies. Do you agree that they need to know how to provide solutions than writing something that is not helpful for freelancers?


Well, first I have to wonder why you expect us to be helpful?  Why exactly do you think you deserve that help?  Some people would say we are "competitors" and personally I don't see it that way but if you have that mindset then why even should they want to help you.

 

So then you have to question why would a bunch of people hang around just to be unhelpful?  It seems like a weak motivation to me.

 

So you think they should be helpful and I think they wouldn't hang around to be unhelpful so maybe there is another answer.  Maybe, we should consider that they are trying to be helpful.

 

Hmm...let's explore that.  If they are trying to be helpful but you say that they are not, maybe the problem isn't entirely on them.  Maybe you are not understanding the help they provide.  Maybe it is because you expect to come with sugar and sometimes it is better dosed with vinegar.

 

I, like everyone except for Petra who was clearly born here, came to this forum looking to see what was what. I found a lot of good information here.  Some of it was in less than pleasant packaging (which I actually prefer) and some of it was confusing but it was here.  But I stayed, and became it's King, because it is a community.

 

A relatively free...relatively open...community.  And it should stay that way.  The kind of community that should allow people to come in and say that people are not helpful and the kind of community that allows me to respond.

The Upwork Community Forum is pretty amazing.

I am not aware of any company's community forum that is more helpful to the company's users than this one.

 

If anyone knows of any that are more helpful, please mention them here. I would love to know about them. Even if they are merely great, but don't exceed Upwork's Forum, give them a shout out here.

BEST. ANSWER. EVER!!! Thanks, Mark. This is a saver to be reused as needed.

 

"Well, first I have to wonder why you expect us to be helpful? Why exactly do you think you deserve that help? Some people would say we are "competitors" and personally I don't see it that way but if you have that mindset then why even should they want to help you.

 

So then you have to question why would a bunch of people hang around just to be unhelpful? It seems like a weak motivation to me.

 

So you think they should be helpful and I think they wouldn't hang around to be unhelpful so maybe there is another answer. Maybe, we should consider that they are trying to be helpful.

 

Hmm...let's explore that. If they are trying to be helpful but you say that they are not, maybe the problem isn't entirely on them. Maybe you are not understanding the help they provide. Maybe it is because you expect to come with sugar and sometimes it is better dosed with vinegar.

 

I, like everyone except for Petra who was clearly born here, came to this forum looking to see what was what. I found a lot of good information here. Some of it was in less than pleasant packaging (which I actually prefer) and some of it was confusing but it was here. But I stayed, and became it's King, because it is a community.

 

A relatively free...relatively open...community. And it should stay that way. The kind of community that should allow people to come in and say that people are not helpful and the kind of community that allows me to respond."

 

But it probably wasn’t helpful
lysis10
Community Member


Mark F wrote:
But it probably wasn’t helpful

My answer got deleted for NO REASON.

florydev
Community Member


Jennifer M wrote:

Mark F wrote:
But it probably wasn’t helpful

My answer got deleted for NO REASON.


I bet it was a classic.

petra_r
Community Member

It seems the OP is no longer upon us.... f.n.r.

Another "My account was suspended for no reason".

Deleted answers are not classic. They violate ToS, they are hurtful, they are mean spirited, they are scapegoating, they are a lot of things.  But they are not classic.  And therein lay the foundational problem with the Forum.  We cheerlead exactly what should never exist in the first place.

 

I have made my fair share of response mistakes.   But it is a poor bat that does not swing in both directions.

 

 

First of all, Upwork is an EXCELLENT environment for freelancers to grow and for legitamate clients to receive excellent service.

 

There are however few bad apples which tarnishes this places and makes it a toxic enviroment which further brings down the reputation of this platform.

 

To give one but specific examples: Community Guidelines

 

This is a professional environment. Not a bar brawl. Conduct yourself accordingly.


I am merely using this case study to highlight a significant flaw of your system.

 

Majority of hoi polloi are nice, courteous and professional people. However, what happens is - and same thing happened to me- is the fact we join and these "Gurus" and pundits chimes in with customer "service" answers that we mistakenly fall prey to the fact conflating/equating these Community Guidelines as the moderators.

 

On the other hand, Upwork moderators are nothing but courteous and professional.

 

However, this strictly needs to be pointed out and distinguished for the new members. Just because your racked up years and years of clockwork gives undue power which gets to your head to abuse members right and left - while parade yourselves as one of Top Contributors whence some of you really should be banned- does not give you ex oficio power to flex your authority anyway you choose bringing down the reputation of this platform.

 

Reign them in. Make it explicitly known they are not moderators. And hold them accountable.

 

I wanted to send this to corporate, but only way I can make my grievances heard is via creation of a new topic.

 

If as a company you want to focus on growth providing great service, then work on this basic principle.

 

Treat others as you would like to be treated.

 

I am refraining from further participation (I know no one cares [insert Spongebob Meme]) but the point being I refuse to engage in a place where some experienced haven't learned the first thing about people skills.

 

Politesse goes a long way in building customer relations. So far, 100% of my clients have been stellar and so are majority of the freelancers. But to reiterate, all these so called top "experienced" top gurus gives this place a disreputable image.

 

A wise man by the name of Lao Tzu once said: "Gentleness is the greatest strength." Being curt and jerk for the sake of being one will get you nowhere in life and is not a "credit". 

 

 

All upwork employees are clearly marked with the green upwork logo next to their name in the forum posts. I understand that can easily be overlooked by a newbie. Of course all comments by non-employees is their opinion only. They don't get paid for it, and might have different motivations for participating. They might be underworked just trying to be helpful, or bored on their lunch break, or have nothing else to do find the forum exchanges highly entertaining. 

As Marina said, anyone with an official position at Upwork is clearly marked as such.

 

And I remember the post of which you speak. The poster was complaining not about their suspension, but about the connects they lost when all of their proposals were withdrawn because of it. They also admitted the suspension was because they agreed to accept payment off the platform, and that they knew it was against the rules.

 

In short, their complaint was that they lost money after being caught trying to defraud Upwork. They then came here looking for sympathy after being caught cheating.

 

Was the tone of some of the responses harsh? Yes. On the other hand, how sympathetic would you be to an admitted thief who tripped while fleeing with his stolen goods and suffered a minor injury?

Aren't you the same guy who mocked a freelancer's English in another thread, after she posted one slightly out-of-place word in her response?


Christine A wrote:
Aren't you the same guy who mocked a freelancer's English in another thread, after she posted one slightly out-of-place word in her response?

Not as amusing as his telling someone else in that same thread to grow thicker skin.

lysis10
Community Member

BtsArmyStuff Shop | Bts memes hilarious, Bts funny moments, Bts funny


Zeeshan M wrote:

 

Politesse goes a long way in building customer relations. 


You are a creative writer but could you fix the typo above. It is very distracting since Politesse is German for meter maid which makes you sentence rather funny to read.


Jennifer R wrote:

Zeeshan M wrote:

 

Politesse goes a long way in building customer relations. 


You are a creative writer but could you fix the typo above. It is very distracting since Politesse is German for meter maid which makes you sentence rather funny to read.


It's also an utterly outdated English word not normally used by native speakers but popular with non-native speakers who want to sound "fancy".

 

I use politesse sometimes (depending on context)- to mean courtesy or politeness, which is also the meaning in French. 


Nichola L wrote:

I use politesse sometimes (depending on context)- to mean courtesy or politeness, which is also the meaning in French. 


I do applogize in all politesse, but I disagreed with his post anyway. As long as Upwork allows scammers that have been reported with evidence of their scamming it is not an EXCELLENT environment for freelancers to grow and for legitamate clients to receive excellent service.


Jennifer R wrote:

Nichola L wrote:

I use politesse sometimes (depending on context)- to mean courtesy or politeness, which is also the meaning in French. 


I do applogize in all politesse, but I disagreed with his post anyway. As long as Upwork allows scammers that have been reported with evidence of their scamming it is not an EXCELLENT environment for freelancers to grow and for legitamate clients to receive excellent service.



Jennifer R wrote:

Nichola L wrote:

I use politesse sometimes (depending on context)- to mean courtesy or politeness, which is also the meaning in French. 


I do applogize in all politesse, but I disagreed with his post anyway. As long as Upwork allows scammers that have been reported with evidence of their scamming it is not an EXCELLENT environment for freelancers to grow and for legitamate clients to receive excellent service.


__________________________________

No problem, but I am not quite sure where this particular post advocates scammers. I think he was just complaining about the gurus lacking a touchy-feely approach when answering questions. Admittedly this was something that could have been compressed into one sentence. So I may not have read it with due care and attention!

We can always try different colours or fonts. If they cannot handle the truth, they just have to look for pink replies. They won't be helpful in the long-run but maybe they feel better.

Politesse In American usage is not quite a synonym for politeness. It connotes punctilious adherence to the forms of politeness.

Given the individuals most of these complaints are addressed towards, it looks like something entirely different is going on with these requests for 'politeness'. In a 'Women: Know your Limits' Harry Enfield sort of way...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS37SNYjg8w

petra_r
Community Member


Kim F wrote:

Given the individuals most of these complaints are addressed towards, it looks like something entirely different is going on with these requests for 'politeness'. In a 'Women: Know your Limits' Harry Enfield sort of way...

 


I thought that, you said it 😉 And that video is priceless!

 

a_lipsey
Community Member

All I know is that I'm known for being bitter and venomous, and...what was the other thing? Oh, condescending, yes. I presume all gurus are like me. 😉 


Amanda L wrote:

All I know is that I'm known for being bitter and venomous, and...what was the other thing? Oh, condescending, yes. I presume all gurus are like me. 😉 


Of course, it just comes with the guru-ness. I'm still on the fence about our new FEATCON Andrea, but look what happened to Mark when the power got to his head. Poor, poor Mark. So sad. 


Zeeshan M wrote:

 

But to reiterate, all these so called top "experienced" top gurus gives this place a disreputable image.

Actually most of those gurus are earning a lot of money for Upwork, and they are examples of excellent freelancers who give high quality, excellent consulting services to clients. They make Upwork look good, not bad.  

"I am refraining from further participation (I know no one cares [insert Spongebob Meme]) but the point being I refuse to engage in a place where some experienced haven't learned the first thing about people skills."

 

That's your right, but I have a different view. I don't give a rat's derriere about the people skills of people on this forum. After all, we all operate in the business world and need to get used to people who are impolite or lacking in that department. All I care about is getting (free) information and advice from people who are killing it on Upwork.

 

A nice feature of top contributors here, is that most have public profiles. So you can quickly verify whether they know what they are talking about. Most of them are making insanely good bank, have top-notch public reviews, high JSS and years on the platform.

 

My lawyer or accountant could use whatever tone they liked with me, if they were offering that quality of information or advice, at that price:)   


Drew D wrote:

All I care about is getting (free) information and advice from people who are killing it on Upwork.


This is something that too many don't 'get', for whatever reason. 

The advice given here is often something that can directly help people be successful on this platform and elsewhere in freelancing. If you could somehow bottle that up then it would be worth A LOT of money. Yet some still choose to reject it for no reason other than it doesn't come with fluff and kittens. 

Many even switch their profiles to private, meaning they can no longer receive advice. 

Bonkers. 


Jennifer M wrote:

Mark F wrote:
But it probably wasn’t helpful

My answer got deleted for NO REASON.


Did you mention sweaties?


Martina P wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

Mark F wrote:
But it probably wasn’t helpful

My answer got deleted for NO REASON.


Did you mention sweaties?


Not even one sweaty mention. I probably can't even mention the mention or risk a NO REASON again.


Mark F wrote:

Abdullaziz A wrote:

Hi there, do you suggest giving limitations on the replies of the top authors and members on their replies. Do you agree that they need to know how to provide solutions than writing something that is not helpful for freelancers?


Well, first I have to wonder why you expect us to be helpful?  Why exactly do you think you deserve that help?  Some people would say we are "competitors" and personally I don't see it that way but if you have that mindset then why even should they want to help you.

 

So then you have to question why would a bunch of people hang around just to be unhelpful?  It seems like a weak motivation to me.

 

So you think they should be helpful and I think they wouldn't hang around to be unhelpful so maybe there is another answer.  Maybe, we should consider that they are trying to be helpful.

 

Hmm...let's explore that.  If they are trying to be helpful but you say that they are not, maybe the problem isn't entirely on them.  Maybe you are not understanding the help they provide.  Maybe it is because you expect to come with sugar and sometimes it is better dosed with vinegar.

 

I, like everyone except for Petra who was clearly born here, came to this forum looking to see what was what. I found a lot of good information here.  Some of it was in less than pleasant packaging (which I actually prefer) and some of it was confusing but it was here.  But I stayed, and became it's King, because it is a community.

 

A relatively free...relatively open...community.  And it should stay that way.  The kind of community that should allow people to come in and say that people are not helpful and the kind of community that allows me to respond.


If somebody asks nicely and has done his/her homework before asking (like not having a sloppy profile), I try to be helpful. If not, I just try to have fun. 

I used to try to be helpful. And I do still try to be helpful for people who are professionals and just need a little assistance here and there, because Upwork does have a bit of a learning curve. But as Mark alluded to, in the end we *are* competitors, *and* it is in our best interests to make sure Upwork puts its best foot forward. Which is to say, when I see a profile that looks like it was written by a third grader, claiming skills the person clearly does not have, and at a rate that is never going to do any of us any favors, I figure what's the point? That person needs to flame out.

a_lipsey
Community Member


Kelly B wrote:

 That person needs to flame out.


Best comment of the week. 

florydev
Community Member


Kelly B wrote:

I used to try to be helpful. And I do still try to be helpful for people who are professionals and just need a little assistance here and there, because Upwork does have a bit of a learning curve. But as Mark alluded to, in the end we *are* competitors, *and* it is in our best interests to make sure Upwork puts its best foot forward. Which is to say, when I see a profile that looks like it was written by a third grader, claiming skills the person clearly does not have, and at a rate that is never going to do any of us any favors, I figure what's the point? That person needs to flame out.


You are probably such a meanie because you are a community guru.

kbadeau
Community Member


Mark F wrote:

Kelly B wrote:

I used to try to be helpful. And I do still try to be helpful for people who are professionals and just need a little assistance here and there, because Upwork does have a bit of a learning curve. But as Mark alluded to, in the end we *are* competitors, *and* it is in our best interests to make sure Upwork puts its best foot forward. Which is to say, when I see a profile that looks like it was written by a third grader, claiming skills the person clearly does not have, and at a rate that is never going to do any of us any favors, I figure what's the point? That person needs to flame out.


You are probably such a meanie because you are a community guru.


I am such a meanie because I learned from the masters.

lysis10
Community Member


Kelly B wrote:


I am such a meanie because I learned from the masters.


It's about time I'm finally recognized for the unique value I bring.

petra_r
Community Member


Jennifer M wrote:

Kelly B wrote:


I am such a meanie because I learned from the masters.


It's about time I'm finally recognized for the unique value I bring.


and me 😄

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