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Re: California Assembly Bill 5 - Upwork Comment

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Trasie S Member Since: Sep 22, 2015
1 of 94

I have not seen where Upwork has released a statement regarding how California Assembly Bill 5 (AB5) is going to effect freelancers who live in California. I am curious if, and how, this bill will impact my ability to use the site. 

And, for anyone else in California who is following this, how many of you have looked into filing as a business so that you can conitnue to work as a contract worker? It is my understanding of Part C that creating a company may allow me to continue to freelance? 

 

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Jessica S Member Since: Dec 4, 2015
2 of 94

Trasie S wrote:

I have not seen where Upwork has released a statement regarding how California Assembly Bill 5 (AB5) is going to effect freelancers who live in California. I am curious if, and how, this bill will impact my ability to use the site. 

And, for anyone else in California who is following this, how many of you have looked into filing as a business so that you can conitnue to work as a contract worker? It is my understanding of Part C that creating a company may allow me to continue to freelance? 

 


Bumping this up.. being that Upwork is a California-based company who uses contractors itself, I am curious as well as to how this will impact this platform.

 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Senate-passes-AB5-gig-work-bill-turning-14430204.php?ps...

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Miriam H Member Since: May 16, 2017
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3 of 94

Jessica S wrote:

Trasie S wrote:

I have not seen where Upwork has released a statement regarding how California Assembly Bill 5 (AB5) is going to effect freelancers who live in California. I am curious if, and how, this bill will impact my ability to use the site. 

And, for anyone else in California who is following this, how many of you have looked into filing as a business so that you can conitnue to work as a contract worker? It is my understanding of Part C that creating a company may allow me to continue to freelance? 

 


Bumping this up.. being that Upwork is a California-based company who uses contractors itself, I am curious as well as to how this will impact this platform.

 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Senate-passes-AB5-gig-work-bill-turning-14430204.php?ps...


I am not a lawyer, however my understanding is this more directed at the type of services where the rate is set by the service provider (i.e. Uber). Putting aside contractors that Upwork may hire for their own services, I don't anticipate any changes to this platform. As Freelancers we set our rates and negotiate our terms directly with the client. In this way, Upwork functions as a lead generation site and an escrow company. The way the site functions (putting aside the silly talent specialists) doesn't, in my NON-LEGAL opinion mirror employment in any way.    
That said, as a CA resident, I'm not happy with this law. I would rather see market forces push down the Ubers and Postmates of the world vs. creating regulations around employment. Employers don't always want or need employees, and the more obstacles you create around hiring and managing the support you need (as an employer) the less inclined companies will be to follow ANY rules.

View solution in original post

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Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
4 of 94

Miriam H wrote:

Jessica S wrote:

Trasie S wrote:

I have not seen where Upwork has released a statement regarding how California Assembly Bill 5 (AB5) is going to effect freelancers who live in California. I am curious if, and how, this bill will impact my ability to use the site. 

And, for anyone else in California who is following this, how many of you have looked into filing as a business so that you can conitnue to work as a contract worker? It is my understanding of Part C that creating a company may allow me to continue to freelance? 

 


Bumping this up.. being that Upwork is a California-based company who uses contractors itself, I am curious as well as to how this will impact this platform.

 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Senate-passes-AB5-gig-work-bill-turning-14430204.php?ps...


I am not a lawyer, however my understanding is this more directed at the type of services where the rate is set by the service provider (i.e. Uber). Putting aside contractors that Upwork may hire for their own services,


Upwork's own US based "freelancers"  are generally already hired through Payroll (as employees) anyway, as are many / most / all (?) of the US (and many elsewhere) based people who work for Enterprise clients.

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Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
5 of 94

I agree with Miriam.

 

I'm not surprised at any Upwork freelancer who is interested in this bill. But I don't think it will affect me in any way.

 

The type of work I do (and I think that goes for most of us who are Forum regulars) simply can not be considered "regular employment." It really is freelancing. It is not like driving for Uber... Which IS freelancing, but which I can understand how some would see it as being similar to regular employment in many ways.

 

Having said that, I too believe that the people of California would be better off if free-market principles and freedom flourish. I have friends who are Uber drivers. They are not required to be Uber drivers. They like what they are doing, and they do not want governments telling them they can't do this, or micromanaging what it is that they do.

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Wendy C Member Since: Aug 24, 2015
6 of 94

Miriam,my understanding of the bill is the same as yours in that ...

 

"my understanding is this more directed at the type of services where the rate is set by the service provider (i.e. Uber). Putting aside contractors that Upwork may hire for their own services, I don't anticipate any changes to this platform. As Freelancers we set our rates and negotiate our terms directly with the client. In this way, Upwork functions as a lead generation site and an escrow company. The way the site functions (putting aside the silly talent specialists) doesn't, in my NON-LEGAL opinion mirror employment in anyway."

 

Text in red is the relevant key clause.

 

@ Preston, are you not an AZ resident?

 

  

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Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
7 of 94

re: "are you not an AZ resident?"

 

I am an Arizona resident.

But Upwork has its headquarters in California.

 

So I understand if any Upwork user, regardless of where they live, is curious about whether or not this bill could affect Upwork users - if it was signed into law.

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Trasie S Member Since: Sep 22, 2015
8 of 94

Preston wrote: 

I agree with Miriam.

 

I'm not surprised at any Upwork freelancer who is interested in this bill. But I don't think it will affect me in any way.

 

The type of work I do (and I think that goes for most of us who are Forum regulars) simply can not be considered "regular employment." It really is freelancing. It is not like driving for Uber... Which IS freelancing, but which I can understand how some would see it as being similar to regular employment in many ways.

 

My concern is not that I would like to be reclassified as an employee, just the opposite. I have been very successful as a freelancer and do not want that to change. This is also why I was wondering about any potential benefits to becoming a company, I want to continue to freelance the rest of my days.

Most of my work is now with local clients through word-of-mouth. The last two times I came to Upwork I was not able to find a good contract, but this platform has been great to me in the past and I am not ready to give up on it. I am just trying to figure out if I need to change anything in light of this new law to continue on as a freelancer as I do today.

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Trasie S Member Since: Sep 22, 2015
9 of 94
Jessica S wrote:
Trasie S wrote:

I have not seen where Upwork has released a statement regarding how California Assembly Bill 5 (AB5) is going to effect freelancers who live in California. I am curious if, and how, this bill will impact my ability to use the site. 

And, for anyone else in California who is following this, how many of you have looked into filing as a business so that you can conitnue to work as a contract worker? It is my understanding of Part C that creating a company may allow me to continue to freelance? 

 

Bumping this up.. being that Upwork is a California-based company who uses contractors itself, I am curious as well as to how this will impact this platform.

 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Senate-passes-AB5-gig-work-bill-turning-14430204.php?ps...

I am not a lawyer, however my understanding is this more directed at the type of services where the rate is set by the service provider (i.e. Uber). Putting aside contractors that Upwork may hire for their own services, I don't anticipate any changes to this platform. As Freelancers we set our rates and negotiate our terms directly with the client. In this way, Upwork functions as a lead generation site and an escrow company. The way the site functions (putting aside the silly talent specialists) doesn't, in my NON-LEGAL opinion mirror employment in any way.    
That said, as a CA resident, I'm not happy with this law. I would rather see market forces push down the Ubers and Postmates of the world vs. creating regulations around employment. Employers don't always want or need employees, and the more obstacles you create around hiring and managing the support you need (as an employer) the less inclined companies will be to follow ANY rules.

Thank you for your response, your first paragraph explaining why certain companies are targeted is the piece of information that I am missing. That makes sense as to why I haven't been able to find information on how the Bill impacts other types of freelancers. 

 

Have a fantastic weekend!

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Trasie S Member Since: Sep 22, 2015
10 of 94

Please see my latest comment on this thread. 

 

AB5 requires that clients and companies convert all California freelancers to W2 employees on January 1. I have put the details in the latest comment, but the correct answer is that for us to legally continue to use the platform after January 1 we need to become Upwork employees and receive W2 income from Upwork Payroll. 

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