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trasies
Community Member

California Assembly Bill 5 - Upwork Comment

I have not seen where Upwork has released a statement regarding how California Assembly Bill 5 (AB5) is going to effect freelancers who live in California. I am curious if, and how, this bill will impact my ability to use the site. 

And, for anyone else in California who is following this, how many of you have looked into filing as a business so that you can conitnue to work as a contract worker? It is my understanding of Part C that creating a company may allow me to continue to freelance? 

 

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Jessica S wrote:

Trasie S wrote:

I have not seen where Upwork has released a statement regarding how California Assembly Bill 5 (AB5) is going to effect freelancers who live in California. I am curious if, and how, this bill will impact my ability to use the site. 

And, for anyone else in California who is following this, how many of you have looked into filing as a business so that you can conitnue to work as a contract worker? It is my understanding of Part C that creating a company may allow me to continue to freelance? 

 


Bumping this up.. being that Upwork is a California-based company who uses contractors itself, I am curious as well as to how this will impact this platform.

 

https://www.sfchronicle.com/business/article/Senate-passes-AB5-gig-work-bill-turning-14430204.php?ps...


I am not a lawyer, however my understanding is this more directed at the type of services where the rate is set by the service provider (i.e. Uber). Putting aside contractors that Upwork may hire for their own services, I don't anticipate any changes to this platform. As Freelancers we set our rates and negotiate our terms directly with the client. In this way, Upwork functions as a lead generation site and an escrow company. The way the site functions (putting aside the silly talent specialists) doesn't, in my NON-LEGAL opinion mirror employment in any way.    
That said, as a CA resident, I'm not happy with this law. I would rather see market forces push down the Ubers and Postmates of the world vs. creating regulations around employment. Employers don't always want or need employees, and the more obstacles you create around hiring and managing the support you need (as an employer) the less inclined companies will be to follow ANY rules.

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93 REPLIES 93

re: "We have spoken with our general counsel about using Upwork period and they are looking into the legalities of using this service because Upwork is a California based company..."

 

Upwork should move its headquarters out of California.

It seems very silly for a freelancing company to be based in an anti-freelancing state.

There is a thing called Upwork Payroll for clients.  https://www.upwork.com/i/payroll-client/

 

I know nothing about it but it might be a work-around for some clients hiring California based freelancers.

Mary W. Thank you. This is a good workaround.

I have already gotten a payroll service for my California freelancers just to be safe, but paying an UpWork contractor outside of the platform would violate their terms of service.

Too bad Upwork themselves isn't educating Clients on what to do.

California's AB5 is definitely not something that ONLY Californians are concerned about... I think the whole country is watching what is going on there. This is an interesting article from New Jersey...

 

https://www.insidernj.com/press-release/fight-freelancers-anti-independent-contractor-law-ab5-not-wo...

 

Screen Shot 2020-02-05 at 9.19.26 AM.png

Thanks, Mary. This is the first time I've seen that. It's a great workaround until AB5 is changed.

 

Upwork should send an email so everyone knows it's available.

Just wanted to add to this that today the U.S. House of Representatives passed a federal bill (HR 2474) with a test identical to the AB5 "ABC Test," but WITHOUT the long list of exemptions the California statute offers. 

 

Even with the exemptions, huge numbers of California freelancers have been thrown out of work. (You can read some of their stories here: https://rolls.bublup.com/Anderson/AB5-Personal-Stories

 

It's unlikely that the federal bill will become law during this session, as the Republican-dominated Senate won't likely support it. But, it's out there, and if it does pass will have a much more significant impact than AB5 has (in scope in addition to the fact that it will impact the whole country rather than just one state).

 

 

Obviously the best way to prevent the federal bill from becoming law is for Americans who oppose that law to not vote for whichever party put forth that law. If the Senate and executive branch were to be controlled by the party that passed the law in the House, then there is a good chance that this and other anti-freelancing laws would become law.

re: "huge numbers of California freelancers have been thrown out of work"

 

I believe this will continue to happen a long as AB5 is in effect.

This is how the law is intended to work.

It is an anti-freelancing law.


Even if the law were rescinded today, California freelancers would continue to be impacted because momentum from such a thing can't be reversed or halted immediately.

 

I no longer California, but that is where I'm from (San Ramon). I am a strong supporter of Californians and California freelancers. But as a freelancer myself, of course I don't support AB5.


Preston H wrote:

Obviously the best way to prevent the federal bill from becoming law is for Americans who oppose that law to not vote for whichever party put forth that law. If the Senate and executive branch were to be controlled by the party that passed the law in the House, then there is a good chance that this and other anti-freelancing laws would become law.


Organized pushback seems to be having an impact in California, and it's fair to assume that the spectacular failure of the California law will inform federal lawmakers and those in other states if it gets enough attention.

writergirl17
Community Member

Hey all. I am a freelance writer in California and everyone has been talking about this new measure. Are any of you in California as well? Are you concerned? I have heard all kinds of different things about it but I am not letting myself freak out.

Yet. 

Search AB5 in these forums.  There's a few threads highlighting people's concerns and issues.

Well... For what it's worth, AB5 is being voted on today (Nov. 3, 2020) as a ballot initiative in California. California Proposition 22 is an effort to roll back restrictions on freelancers (contractors) such as those who work as drivers for Lyft, Doordash, and Uber, to allow them to continue to work independently, as in the past, rather than getting classified as "employees."

 

AB5 is an overtly anti-freelancing law currently in effect in California. By the end of the day today, we will know if the voters in California reject AB5 or want to see it stay in effect.

Californians are not voting on AB5, they are voting on an "app based driver' bill that is exclusive to Lyft, Uber, Doordash and the other delivery services who joined together to spend millions of dollars to protect their businesses from AB5. This bill offers nothing tangible for anyone who is not driving for any of these companies, it does not at all change AB5, it just provides another exemption for another class of workers. 

 

That said, it passed. What is unknown at this time is did it pass because of the millions of dollars of effective advertising that Silicon Valley put into this effort, or did it pass because the voters of California support the concept of freelancing. The pundits will start weighing in on that soon enough...

 

It would be wrong to assume that passing the bill means that voters are rejecting AB5, the fact that this thread is still alive shows that many California based freelancers and independent contractors are still finding out about AB5, and most people I discuss this with have no idea it exists.

 

The larger concern is H.R. 2474 which will apply AB5 at the national level. Even if Biden wins the electon the bill may have a hard time passing, but you can no longer call out California for passing this law when it is currently being discussed in the US House of Representatives. The unions want to make this law national...

 

isamybaxy
Community Member

Upwork is becoming like a physical office.
It may in the near future, raise some credible Upworkers to employees.
Independent contractors earn that as a perk.
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