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California Assembly Bill 5 - Upwork Comment

Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
41 of 84

DJ B wrote:

This is the biggest concern for me. Employers are going to be confused by the law and default to either hiring as W-2 or simply avoiding Caifornia-based freelancers altogether.

 


Yes, I do think that this is true, unfortunately. If I were a freelancer living in California, my bags would already be packed.

Community Guru
Mary W Member Since: Nov 10, 2014
42 of 84

Could someone based in California please PM the email you received from Upwork?  I would like to send it to a client ASAP.

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
43 of 84

Or if a moderator could post a link to it?


Does not sound like a private thing. Sounds like something that would be useful to anyone working with California-based Upwork clients or freelancers.

 

As far as people leaving California goes... I read an article today saying that with the latest census data, California is going to lose at least one Congressional seat due to population loss.

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
44 of 84

Well, this is interesting... Some major companies are simply not going to comply with AB5...

 

Uber, Lyft, Postmates, Facebook and others are apparently going to skip this one...

 

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Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
45 of 84

Interesting. What's the penalty for non-compliance? Presumably the bigger companies can afford it, or can afford to go to court. 

Community Guru
Miriam H Member Since: May 16, 2017
46 of 84

Christine A wrote:

Interesting. What's the penalty for non-compliance? Presumably the bigger companies can afford it, or can afford to go to court. 


My understanding, again non-legal, the penalty only is an issue if a worker brings a lawsuit - i don't think there is any audit or monitoring, but I could be mistaken. 

Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
47 of 84

Miriam H wrote:

Christine A wrote:

Interesting. What's the penalty for non-compliance? Presumably the bigger companies can afford it, or can afford to go to court. 


My understanding, again non-legal, the penalty only is an issue if a worker brings a lawsuit - i don't think there is any audit or monitoring, but I could be mistaken. 


It sounds like you're right. From the article:

 

"Gonzalez says she hopes city attorneys and the state attorney general will hold gig companies responsible if they do not comply with the law."

 

She hopes?

 

Also, this:

 

"If you can't hold [Uber and Lyft's] feet to the flames, and [the law is] affecting people that it really wasn't supposed to affect, then something needs to be changed — and quick."

 

Community Leader
Nicole H Member Since: Nov 15, 2007
48 of 84

I read a news article somewhere with a quote from the Upwork CEO about this. They don't seem that concerned because they offer the W-2 option as well as the 1099 option. In fact, the CEO admitted they make more money off of W-2 jobs than 1099 jobs so it is in their interest probably for us to be classified correctly, unlike companies like Uber.

Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
49 of 84
The question is whether clients will be reluctant to hire California-based freelancers or not, and whether California-based clients will be less likely to use freelancers. (The article mentions one large employer of freelance journalists that has already decided to stop using them and hire permanent staff instead, and they aren't the only ones.) There have been some calls to regulate the "gig economy" in Britain as well, so I'm following all of this with interest (and a bit of worrying).
Community Guru
Bill H Member Since: Aug 18, 2017
50 of 84

This should worry every American. The 2009-2017 war on small business and entrepreneurship was the most successful war the American government ever waged. It severely damaged the most often successful route to financial independence and social mobility. Immigrants in particular were especially hard-hit, the most damage was done to immigrants of color and to women.

Yes, I'm a Grumpy Old Man. I don't trust this one bit. Seattle passed the new minimum wage bill and said it would only apply to large companies. Then they showed up at Mom and Pop franchises and told them that, for example, Subway has tens of thousands of workers nationwide, so their franchise, with nine workers, is a large business. Los Angeles passed a minimum wage law that would only apply to businesses that were not unionized, on the theory that unions would stand up for workers' rights. The net effect was a large recruiting drive by hotel and other service workers unions, affecting mostly minority groups and immigrants. The pitch was compelling: Help us unionize your workforce, and we'll agree to reduce workers' wages. You can't make this stuff up.

 

This will drive small businesses into being acquired at pennies on the dollar, and reduce entrepreneurial opportunities for immigrants and minority groups. That is what happened 2009-2017. Interestingly, it also puts pressure on independent journalists and can create a chilling effect on freedom of the press. Prosecutorial discretion will let prosecutors carefully monitor investigative journalists who are looking into things government doesn't want made public. Their livelihood can be threatened, although they have an out - just become an employee of a large media company, where you're subject to firing if you try to blow the whistle. At least if you try to blow the whistle on **Edited for Community Guidelines**. You can look for more and more jurisdictions passing similar laws, if only for the control government gains over independent journalists. The ability to quash entrepreneurs is just a bonus.

 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**. By people who claim they are the champions of those groups. Makes you wonder what else they're lying about.

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