Can we talk about the new forum and the groups?

[jr-translation]

In my opinion the entire group idea is a mess and I am still trying to find a real motivation for it. We have an explination from Stan but it does not really work for me.

We now have a group "New to Upwork" AND a discussion called "New to Upwork". Great job in the (re)naming department.

But in case you are wondering what has happend to the "Admin Support Specialists", "Designers & Creatives", "Writers & Translators", or "Engineering" discussions, they are became groups so "Please take some time to look around, get acquainted with some of your peers, and let [Upwork] know how [they] can help. " 

So, dicussion used to talk about certain field on Upwork but have been turned into groups we should socialise. Nope. That is not why I am on Upwork.

The other really exiting groups are: "U.S. Veterans & Families" (obviously a very elite group for United States Veterans and their family members [Isn't that discriminating? Why do they get a special place?], "Upwork Women" (I am still observing, but there isn't too much going on and nothing ), and "Upwork Families".

Let's take a closer look at the last one: Owners: 1 Upwork staff, 2 freelancers.  2 threads from Upwork and 3 from the freelancers. One of these 2 freelancers only posted twice in the forum (in this very group) the other has 7 or 10 posts (it says 10 but only 7 are visible). 6 of these posts in "Upwork Families" and there is no activity before February 7th (the cover letter disaster).

Both freelancers are male and have their own "Families Group Highlight" thread, but no mentioning about how family life and freelancing really works hand in hand. But yes, we learn how great Upwork is for them.

One "outside" poster joined but is only talking about non-family related stuff.

The great "Working from Home with Kids" article, obviously written by someone not being in the situation.

And then there is the thread promoting "Health Insurance for Upwork Freelancers" which does not apply for most freelancers on Upwork.

[sullivanliz]

Agreed, the new 'Groups' situation is a complete mess. Overly complicated, confusing, and just plain strange in parts.

[StanG]

[sullivanliz]

That's what I was wondering, Stan!

[gilbert-phyllis]

Structural issues aside, it's a bit tone-deaf to post an introductory greeting  that ignores the fact the Writers & Translators page has supported an authentic community for years. Rearranging pages is one thing but acting like the new community team just invented it is more than a little off-putting. 

[StanG]

We're not at all pretending that we invented it - Very much the opposite in that we are hoping to drive more traffic to it, not just through what has traditionally been a game of luck where someone stumbles upon it, but instead proactively invite users who are Writers and Translators to participate there. As you join Upwork, we may recommend it as a place to find members with similar backgrounds to have a conversation.  We are not at all trying to limit the work that came before, but instead amplify it for many more eyes to see it. (With all that said, I love the passion so many of you have for this place, if you care to admit it or not!)

[gilbert-phyllis]

So, clearly there is a profound disconnect between your intended messaging and what many of us are hearing; and between your aims for the UX and what many of us are experiencing. Take that as a finding, or don't. 

[mwiggenhorn]

There is not now, nor has there every been, a group for legal.  Also, there is no Top Rated Plus or whatever it's called for Legal Services.  We're just a little herd of unicorns, prancing unseen in the deep forest.

[StanG]

There is not a legal group yet.  Would you like to volunteer to lead one?

[mwiggenhorn]

I'm too old.  LOL.  I guess I would consider a co-lead kinda thing (maybe with an attorney) if, in fact, there was a meaningful way to communicate with other legal professionals.  

[jr-translation]

Make sure you read everything before you agree to anything. You might ending up being responsible for a group with no activity apart from people asking for specifics about the ToS and whaat legal actions can be taken against clients/freelancers.

[a_lipsey]

I can't believe I'm suggesting anything in favor of these new groups, but what about a disability group? You have a Veterans group. Working and managing disability is actually really relevant for freelancers, and many on this forum have talked about this is why they came to freelancing (including myself). 

Also, I have no problem with new groups. I do have a problem with them being SO buried that it takes like 5 clicks to get to them. The navigation is terrible, and studies have shown that more clicks means decreased engagement/participation. So, in favor of best practices, maybe you can reinstitute normal breadcrumbing so we can easily get to these fun new groups?

[ladyofthepen]

I agree with you, Amanda. I have MCTD/SLE (the doc hasn't decided yet) 🙄 I have a cane. I need a wheelchair for long distances (and recently learned just how wheelchair UNFRIENDLY the world is). And, yes, breadcrumbing...otherwise, I am just going to keep a list in OneNote. 

I don't truly understand the purpose of the USA only group. Looks like a giant sales page to me. I've not read any actual interactions...just here is what I do: hire me. 

[foundationad]

After having been on upwork for some years, this is the first time I've come on here with the intention to actually engage, so it's interesting to see these criticisms to something I have fresh eyes on.... some of them verry funny. My perspective (for what it's worth) on the above comments and the groups themselves is that It is likely a case of attempting to fix something that isn't broken. The icons look dated, and the options limited, as well as what looks like mild virtue signaling. From what I remember the classic forum was chugging along quite nicely, only proving there is a reason why that format for human interaction has survived for thirty odd years. There's always room for improvement, and I'm still going to try and use it.

[StanG]

What led you into Community to finally engage?

[florydev]

Wait, that's my name. Someone stole my name.

[ladyofthepen]

I think this version is a little easier for me to read...I have vision problems from MCTD/SLE. I rarely used the old version BECAUSE of that. My complaints on this one are very mild as I agreed with Amanda above:

• Can we get breadcrumbs for easier navigation?
• Can those of us who are disabled have a get-together spot? 
• The USA only group reads like a sales page. 

Personally, I hate the all white background here but I know it's part of their branding. For my eyes, it sucks but I have special glasses or I can use Flux to fix it for me. 🙂 

What do you like that brought you to use the new one? I would honestly love to know.  🙂 

[colettelewis]

The person who is in charge of all this mess change has the strangest sense of chronological order. He told us he fell down a flight of stairs, which did a certain amount of damage. Now I can totally empathize with this, because that also happened to me, but I am a great deal older, so if it had been me in charge, chronological dysfunction might have been  expected as a result. Funnily enough it hasn't impacted that side of my brain and for me, it seems that date/tilme order is the best way to go to avoid total confusion - but that's just me. 

[StanG]

I laughed 😂🤣

It sounds like you are suggesting we start a brain group!

[colettelewis]

No. What I am suggesting - strongly - is some sort of logical, chronological order in the forums (as we had before they  got so messed up). As to the groups, I don't think you are going to get that much interest. Writers and translators was interesting because people posted there to get questions and worries answered or commented on. But shunting it onto the 3rd-class deck, alters the purpose.

[ravi_iitian]

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Nichola L wrote:

... it seems that date/tilme order is the best way to go to avoid total confusion - but that's just me. 

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Count me in.

[wescowley]

I agree it's a mess and very confusing. It takes multiple clicks to get to places now that used to take just one, including moving from one group to another. The New to Upwork section is duplicated but with different content. Upwork Helps seems to be a group but it's not on the group page. And the thread lists have this silly "load more" thing after just a few posts. How is this better?

It's interesting you pointed out the health insurance thing. I may have missed it, but that post in Upwork Families is the only place I've seen that partnership with Catch mentioned on the Upwork site. Even when Upwork's Twitter account posted about it, they linked to Catch's site, not a post on Upwork. As far as I can tell, there's zero benefit (pardon the pun) to using Catch over just going to the government portals (other than to Catch, and it's not clear who's paying them for the service of displaying the plans available on the government portals). Anyway, that's a side rant.

[StanG]

Regardless of how I answer this, I'll probably get beat up so here we go!

New to Upwork - Naming convention is confusing, that's our bad. They were meant to serve similar purposes, but for different crowds. The Group goes along with the Upwork Academy which is in testing for new freelancers joining the platform. They are being directed to the group once they complete the Academy modules. With all that said, we're planning to sunset the group shortly and merge it into the forum! (We are admittedly testing and launching a lot of new 'stuff and things', but we're attempting to do it in the least disruptive way). No doubt, for those here who are Gurus and are used to little to nothing changing in Community, we will continue to drive you wild over the enhancements and changes coming (some which will be great, some which will fail, but we'll continue to adjust as we go).

Groups are meant to serve a variety of purposes, all of which are optional experiences you can choose to participate in if you want. We do have many hidden groups that we have been testing and trialing for months, and we are just now starting to launch some of our first public groups. We have plenty more planned, and if you have thoughts of how to improve any of this, we're all for feedback. What isn't as clear today, and we'll be working on that as time goes on, is these groups are meant to be less moderated spaces where we (Upwork) won't be coming in 24/7 editing and telling folks they are breaking the rules. We very much want to make it so it is more your own space, and you (the community) can run with it. Said different, I would love for Valeria to take a vacation for a week 🙂

[jr-translation]

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Stan G wrote:

Regardless of how I answer this, I'll probably get beat up so here we go!

New to Upwork - Naming convention is confusing, that's our bad. They were meant to serve similar purposes, but for different crowds. The Group goes along with the Upwork Academy which is in testing for new freelancers joining the platform. They are being directed to the group once they complete the Academy modules. With all that said, we're planning to sunset the group shortly and merge it into the forum! (We are admittedly testing and launching a lot of new 'stuff and things', but we're attempting to do it in the least disruptive way). No doubt, for those here who are Gurus and are used to little to nothing changing in Community, we will continue to drive you wild over the enhancements and changes coming (some which will be great, some which will fail, but we'll continue to adjust as we go).

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You are not driving us wild, but away because your enhancements are not helping at all. Mayby try asking first.

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Stan G wrote:

Groups are meant to serve a variety of purposes, all of which are optional experiences you can choose to participate in if you want. We do have many hidden groups that we have been testing and trialing for months, and we are just now starting to launch some of our first public groups. We have plenty more planned, and if you have thoughts of how to improve any of this, we're all for feedback. What isn't as clear today, and we'll be working on that as time goes on, is these groups are meant to be less moderated spaces where we (Upwork) won't be coming in 24/7 editing and telling folks they are breaking the rules. We very much want to make it so it is more your own space, and you (the community) can run with it. Said different, I would love for Valeria to take a vacation for a week 🙂

---

What you did is take discussions on specific fields that happened in seperate "room" in the forum and decided that they should be groups and be a meeting room for other freelancers in that field. We are here to work not to socialise. What you managed is to have people adressing specific questions about specific fields in the overall freelancer forum while everything that has ever been discussed in the room is no longer available in the forum.

FWIW, these "rooms" needed very little supervision and could have done with even less considering that moderators often just posted that they will take questions that were not Upwork related to "the team".

[atlinguist]

Great! If we are to make these rooms our "own space" that we can run ourselves, does this mean we can finally share anonymized information about scammers? And if this redesign is meant to be future-proof (for a while), why not nudge it more in the metaverse direction? Make groups look like places you want to go to (even if they're only 2D) because they promise community spirit. (That's what the old forums, at Elance etc. felt like.)

[ladyofthepen]

I am not here to beat you up. Change takes time. I think it is better than the old one. For someone like me with vision issues, it is easier to read. So, I am more likely to try to hang out here once in a while. Heck, I didn't know we could have DMs. Did the old one have that? 

I am still trying to learn to navigate it but to be fair, I didn't use the old one, either. 

Like someone mentioned earlier, (I forget names fast because of brain inflammation) can we get a discussion group for freelancers with disabilities? 

[kbadeau]

The designers group just seems to be people who are new to the platform lamenting the fact that even though they are just like a million other folks on here they haven't been able to land their first job yet.

Also why are the background bars blue instead of Upwork green?