Ray C wrote:
Jennifer, Those bullet points you listed are not applicable because they hardly ever threaten to give you bad feedback. They just keep asking for more and more, telling you you did it wrong when they are asking for the impossible, or scope creeping, or just milking you for more work then you agreed to do. And the other examples are either to protect the client or examples that never happen. I'm afraid Suzi is right and you are WRONG!
I too have tried contacting support when this happens and they say "it's best if you try to work it out with your client." They can't do anything to help. It's a client-centric system. And since it doesn't matter to the client if we give them a bad review they can blackmail us. And you can have 2 years of rave reviews and thrilled clients and then one of these people does this and your score drops three points overnight and takes years to recover from it. it is putting the needs of the service provider last. And treating seasoned professionals with stellar track records the same as a beginner or a disreputable freelancer.
Attempting to or actually manipulating or misusing the feedback system, including by: ... offering services for the sole purpose of obtaining positive feedback of any kind;
It is a ToS violation if a freelancer offeres to work for close to nothing just to get a positiv feedback. In theory every freelancer sending a proposal for a job that promisses that includes 5* guaranteed violates the ToS and should be suspended.
Same goes for clients:
Requesting or demanding free services, including requesting Freelancers to submit work as part of the proposal process for very little or no money or posting contests in which Freelancers submit work with no or very little pay, and only the winning submission is paid the full amount;
I am afraid you did not read the ToS as thoroughly as you should have. Maybe you want to re-read them before your account gets suspended FNR.
Suzi E wrote:
This pinpoints the problems with the way Upwork allows clients to hold freelancers hostage for their ratings...
Oh Suzi! Truer words have never been spoken! that was a real killer for me for my first couple years here. Although it rarely happens to me anymore but I still get one every now and then. I think the best way to handle it is just to tell them "Listen I'm really sorry, I would love to do this 39th revision for you but I was just diagnosed with non-non non non Hutchinson's Lymphoma and one of the symptoms is "inability to freelance." Keep the money, I gotta go waste away in some ICU for the remainder of my life." And hope they take pity on you.
SO FUNNY! Thanks for the laugh. LOL in fact. After all, the hostage should be able to work it out with the kidnapper. You're such a weakling! When it's a violation of Terms Of Service, it's not my job to "educate" the client. They just move on and pull the same number on the next freelancer.
When you tell a client that their "offer" is a violation of Terms Of Service, you certainly will not get the job.
Unfortunately, it ends up with the professional freelancers taking only 1 out of every 10 jobs offered. Upwork actually gets less business by using this "pro-client" approach. I'm darned picky about whom I will work with.
It makes for a very toxic work situation for any new freelancer, no matter how many years of expertise they have.
Then, of course, if you don't work with these types of "clients", your stats look bad!
I just wish there were a way to prevent these kinds of predators from preying on freelancers in a system skewed against them. That's the positive change I can't figure out how to bring about at Upwork.
Suzi E wrote:
You're such a weakling!
If you're being held hostage by a client for anything, then you are the weakling, honestly. Too weak to stand up to a client and/or walk away instead of letting them bully you. Too weak to walk away the moment a client exhibits this behavior and still work for them. Too weak to have confidence in your own ability to choose better clients and vet better in the future. You've pinpointed the problem perfectly - the issue is freelancers who let clients bat them around. You have the power. You can walk away. Sure, there will be consequences, but do you want to be a hostage to a client or do you want the control over your business?
Muhammad F wrote:
"Write 2500 words and get 5-star ratings. The budget is tight so don't apply if you don't accept the payment. But a 5-star rating is a must if you can complete the job without plagiarism."
You can flag that post as a violation of the Upwork ToS. Clients aren't supposed to bargain with freelancers using promises of high ratings.
There was a corker last week for voiceover artists, the audition script included a clause whereby you signed over all rights to the client to electronically duplicate your voice & use/sell it however they wished.
It was posted under the guise of helping the client "with their robotics project".
I flagged it & with the help of a fellow booth junkie & upworker who's one of the big VO guys on youtube warning people
:- "Do not read that audition script!", the "offer" was quickly taken down, unfortunately not before several people had applied for it though :-(
Are you saying that you don't think a person should be able to sell the rights to use their recorded voice samples in an electronically duplicated way?
You would probably not like "The Congress" starring Robin Wright.
> Are you saying that you don't think a person should be able to sell the rights to use their recorded voice samples in an electronically duplicated way?
No, selling/licensing the rights to use your voice is completely fine, & you enter into a contract to be compensated accordingly, just as Robin’s character was in the film.
The circumstances of last weeks offer were vastly different. The posting was designed to hoodwink any unwary auditioning freelancer into handing over any rights to their voice FOC, and allowing the client to "use it for any purpose". The client set out to achieve this by having the freelancer record themselves saying the "contract waiver clause", as an integral part of the requested audition script.
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