Feb 10, 2019 04:19:54 PM Edited Feb 10, 2019 07:26:48 PM by Avery O
Ok so I decided to post this in the Coffee Break section as, if I didn't misunderstand, it would suit such a comic, not comic post, which is actually about a job I saw today:
I hope posting the job posting's details is not against the Community Guide Lines:
**edited for Community Guidelines**
-The job has 5-10 proposals last time checked and as mentioned: experts are required for a fixed price of $5. Is this even legitimate? 😄
Feb 10, 2019 04:27:44 PM by John K
Mina, some clients put in $5 as a placeholder, so they expect freelancers to change it to something else, and some of the freelancers who applied probably bid with a much higher budget for the job. But the client might really expect the job to be done for $5, so the only way to know for sure is to apply and ask the client.
Feb 10, 2019 04:28:00 PM by Phyllis G
I'm not a translator so not equipped to assess, but if everything else about the post is reasonable but the budget, then I would assume that's a placeholder. If I were interested, I would submit a proposal with my own placeholder budget and specify all time and scope parameters that my budget was based on.
Feb 10, 2019 04:52:13 PM by Mina F
Aha, okay, maybe. But I think it's still misleading, I mean I would still not risk losing connects attempting to propose a much higher price if I'm not sure what his maximum expectations are, otherwise what's the purpose of filling the "budget" part!
Feb 10, 2019 05:26:21 PM by Scott S
I learned something here and I agree with Mina. When I see an unreasonable budget # for a job I could submit a proposal for I decide against it so I don't waste a connection. And, I personally a leave the job description with the impression that people wanting work done have no respect for the people they want to hire. My direct experience here is someone actually threw a whole $20.00 in escro for me to accept his job that he decided would take 10 minutes. It took at least that to read his detailed request for an idea what he was asking. I had to reject that offer. Bottom line, losing a connection without any feedback on whether I was even in the ballpark isn't a great experience.
Feb 11, 2019 12:27:40 AM by Jennifer R
Mina F wrote:Ok so I decided to post this in the Coffee Break section as, if I didn't misunderstand, it would suit such a comic, not comic post, which is actually about a job I saw today:
I hope posting the job posting's details is not against the Community Guide Lines:
**edited for Community Guidelines**
-The job has 5-10 proposals last time checked and as mentioned: experts are required for a fixed price of $5. Is this even legitimate? 😄
As said before, this is probably just a placeholder. This said if you bid hire, you should also hope that no Talent Specialist gets in your way.
I would check the clients history. What is the average hourly rate? That is often the biggest help you can get.
Feb 14, 2019 06:38:43 PM by Anthony H
Last time I bid $5 on something, the client jumped on it like a seagull on a dumpster. When I told him it was a placeholder bid, he (rightfully, I figure) gave me all kinds of s h rhymes with idiot. (Ok, well, it doesn't rhyme with idiot.)
Why? Because I was wasting his time.
For my money, making excuses for a client doing that is just lame-oh. When a client puts down $5 on a job, I don't care what it is, he or she is saying "I want the lowest bid possible for this job." You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to figure that out.
Now, when I put $5 on a bid, I say in my cover letter, "That's a place holder." Otherwise, I'm just playing games and the client has every right to accuse me of wasting his or her time. Goes both ways, as I see it.
In fact, I just saw a job listed as "expert" pay in which the job poster proudly barked that he or she was paying $1 for 100 words. I submitted a bid, actually. My proposal said exactly this:
"Do the math. Expert pay? Wow. Is anyone falling for that? If so, hire them. Doing so will get you both out of my way. Thanks."
Feb 14, 2019 10:15:51 PM by Reinier B
Anthony H wrote:Last time I bid $5 on something, the client jumped on it like a seagull on a dumpster. When I told him it was a placeholder bid, he (rightfully, I figure) gave me all kinds of s h rhymes with idiot. (Ok, well, it doesn't rhyme with idiot.)
Why? Because I was wasting his time.
For my money, making excuses for a client doing that is just lame-oh. When a client puts down $5 on a job, I don't care what it is, he or she is saying "I want the lowest bid possible for this job." You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to figure that out.
Now, when I put $5 on a bid, I say in my cover letter, "That's a place holder." Otherwise, I'm just playing games and the client has every right to accuse me of wasting his or her time. Goes both ways, as I see it.
In fact, I just saw a job listed as "expert" pay in which the job poster proudly barked that he or she was paying $1 for 100 words. I submitted a bid, actually. My proposal said exactly this:
"Do the math. Expert pay? Wow. Is anyone falling for that? If so, hire them. Doing so will get you both out of my way. Thanks."
I said something similar to client once. He came back asking how much I wanted per 100 words. I said $15. He said OK, and I'm still working with him nearly four years later, but now at $18 per 100 words.
Feb 15, 2019 12:47:18 AM by Petra R
Anthony H wrote:
In fact, I just saw a job listed as "expert" pay in which the job poster proudly barked that he or she was paying $1 for 100 words. I submitted a bid, actually. My proposal said exactly this:
"Do the math. Expert pay? Wow. Is anyone falling for that? If so, hire them. Doing so will get you both out of my way. Thanks."
Seriously?
I've never understood why freelancers waste their time and the client's time for no purpose other than to insult clients.
I quote my price. They can take it, or they can leave it. No skin off my nose. I pay little or no attention to the budget unless it aligns with my rates anyway.
To actually apply just to be rude?
I don't get it.
Feb 15, 2019 12:59:19 AM by Preston H
A freelancer who is rude or insulting to clients is doing harm to the Upwork platform as a whole.
I would prefer to see such freelancers removed from the platform.
Feb 16, 2019 04:08:07 PM by Nichola L
Preston, your tie is choking you!
If there is no call for freelancers to be insulting, then there is no call either for clients to be insulting. Some "clients" go beyond insulting and are abusive. Some clients are clearly not very willing to pay Upwork's basic rates and they are insulting. I sometimes think that clients need a reality check, particularly when one gets invites for 'lowest offer wins' type job offers.
Feb 17, 2019 02:04:56 AM Edited Feb 17, 2019 02:05:32 AM by Luce N
I agree with Nichola. Some clients seen to take freelancers for beggars. What they dare to offer is often offensive and humiliating.
And I wish freelancers would stop encouraging that attitude by offering to work for crumbs. I don't see the point. They will never make a living by getting a $5 job or two once in a while, so what's the point?
Feb 17, 2019 09:20:05 AM Edited Feb 17, 2019 09:21:40 AM by Scott S
A slight tangent here. Unless I read the payout policy incorrectly, for the US freelancers anyway, you need to earn $100.00 after UPWORK claims it's fees to be able to grab your money. If that is true, to maintain my own personal policy, I won't do a job that doesn't meet the minimum for me to make $100 or more after the UPWORK %. So, if your rate $5 per whatever, you need to work through 25 of whatever unit your rate covers. I realize that for some tasks that might be a valid rate. If your rate is "hours" this is not a good rate, right? (thats rhetorical because there a many rabbit holes persuing this part of the discussion).
btw: I am extremely disheartened at the quality of clients/buyers.
Feb 17, 2019 09:35:33 AM by Luce N
I've never heard of the $100 minimum before, Scott, but then I don't live in the States. There should be some sort of rules to stop "clients" and "freelancing" aiming at rock bottom rates, because it's unethical and disgusting.
Feb 17, 2019 09:53:48 AM by Petra R
Scott S wrote:A slight tangent here. Unless I read the payout policy incorrectly, for the US freelancers anyway, you need to earn $100.00 after UPWORK claims it's fees to be able to grab your money.
Absolute nonsense.
The $ 100 is the minimum you can set an auto-withdrawal for. You can manually withdraw your money at any time you like, provided you have an available balance that exceeds the withdrawal fee.
Feb 17, 2019 10:44:54 AM by Scott S
Not sure why you had to be rude Petra. I don't appreciate being scolded because I might have misread a poorly written policy. I don't think it was "absolute non-sense." I qualified my statement, "if I read it correctly."
I am new to UPWORK. Figuring everything out isn't so easy and I also haven't received my first contract yet. I've already experienced a buyer trying to get work done for free during the interview, and a direct low-ball offer that would not have covered the time it took to read and understood a poorly written task request, and of course the many jobs listed that I could do but the freelancer proposals were outrageously low so it would be hard to compete. So far, this environment has proven, to me, to not be very productive or cordule. I've also seen an official moderator berated for trying to help with a difficult question related to a function the UPWORK website doesn't support.
Maybe I didn't read the policy correctly. The scenario/example given when setting my "Get Paid" configuration more or less explained what I would need to be able to collect my pay. If I misunderstood that, you simply could have said, "You misunderstood the policy" or "you didn't read it correctly." Maybe you weren't trying to be rude? Then why didn't you proofread before clicking submit. I've read some of your other "contributions" to others in these forums. Regardless of how helpful your content might have been, I'm not the first one you've been rude to. No one needs to friends, but there is no reason to piss people off for no reason.
Now, I am not sure my opinion of the freelancers here are much better than of client/buyers.
Feb 17, 2019 10:50:09 AM by Luce N
Scott, if you're new here, you need to be patient with Petra. She can be very blunt, but she's got many qualities.
I know because in the beginning I got extremely angry with her, but now I appreciater her a lot.
Feb 17, 2019 12:59:23 PM by Phyllis G
Scott S wrote:Not sure why you had to be rude Petra. I don't appreciate being scolded because I might have misread a poorly written policy. I don't think it was "absolute non-sense." I qualified my statement, "if I read it correctly."
I am new to UPWORK. Figuring everything out isn't so easy and I also haven't received my first contract yet. I've already experienced a buyer trying to get work done for free during the interview, and a direct low-ball offer that would not have covered the time it took to read and understood a poorly written task request, and of course the many jobs listed that I could do but the freelancer proposals were outrageously low so it would be hard to compete. So far, this environment has proven, to me, to not be very productive or cordule. I've also seen an official moderator berated for trying to help with a difficult question related to a function the UPWORK website doesn't support.
Maybe I didn't read the policy correctly. The scenario/example given when setting my "Get Paid" configuration more or less explained what I would need to be able to collect my pay. If I misunderstood that, you simply could have said, "You misunderstood the policy" or "you didn't read it correctly." Maybe you weren't trying to be rude? Then why didn't you proofread before clicking submit. I've read some of your other "contributions" to others in these forums. Regardless of how helpful your content might have been, I'm not the first one you've been rude to. No one needs to friends, but there is no reason to piss people off for no reason.
Now, I am not sure my opinion of the freelancers here are much better than of client/buyers.
As a freelancer, one of the most useful things you can develop is a thick skin. It will help you distinguish between plain talk and rudeness, which in turn will save you a lot of energy otherwise spent processing and reacting to perceived insults.
This forum is an absolute treasure-trove of knowledge and insights about how the platform works and how to succeed here. In general, I've found the most valuable comments often come from posters who speak directly and even bluntly. I do so myself, sometimes. I think it's partly provoked by the place being overrun with new arrivals whose questions make it obvious they haven't spent any time at all educating themselves about freelancing or about UW. (This is not directed at you, Scott, I'm speaking generally.) Often, they not only are getting into trouble and/or creating trouble for clients--all of which costs the platform valuable CS bandwidth--but they often tend to dramatize wildly about what is going on. Or what they think is going on.
There's a cadre of experienced regulars who are generous with their time and experience, offering information and guidance to whoever comes here with questions. There's not a lot of sugarcoating, though.
And, BTW, sometimes a moderator brings inaccurate, incomplete, or simply wrongheaded input. When that happens, I'm really glad that Petra--or Tonya or Jennifer (either one of them, I can't keep their initials straight!) or Wassim or John or Wendy or one of a dozen or so others--is around to set the record straight.
Feb 17, 2019 02:08:54 PM by Scott S
Thanks Phyllis.
Thick skin isn't the issue. I've been a freelancer for over 30 years in this and another industry. I have already seen the bandwidth issue. You can tell I've gone through a good share of UPWORK Background, etc based on most of my questions and "contributions." I have detected a number of the comments/questions where my response would have been "you would know this if you did your homework." btw: homework is something some of these youngins' might not know how to do because everyone gets a trophy.
I don't think Petra was intending to be insulting. But being blunt, or honest or simple without being rude is certainly possible. To be blunt...she failed. In essence, that rude beginning to an accurate answer has become a distraction. I stipulate to her accuracy in correcting what I said. But, I wasn't that far off. I firmly believe in the Golden Rule (?) -- do unto others, etc. She could easily said, "You missed the part about...." Something like that is simply honest IMO.
Feb 17, 2019 02:37:21 PM by Phyllis G
Scott S wrote:Thanks Phyllis.
Thick skin isn't the issue. I've been a freelancer for over 30 years in this and another industry. I have already seen the bandwidth issue. You can tell I've gone through a good share of UPWORK Background, etc based on most of my questions and "contributions." I have detected a number of the comments/questions where my response would have been "you would know this if you did your homework." btw: homework is something some of these youngins' might not know how to do because everyone gets a trophy.
I don't think Petra was intending to be insulting. But being blunt, or honest or simple without being rude is certainly possible. To be blunt...she failed. In essence, that rude beginning to an accurate answer has become a distraction. I stipulate to her accuracy in correcting what I said. But, I wasn't that far off. I firmly believe in the Golden Rule (?) -- do unto others, etc. She could easily said, "You missed the part about...." Something like that is simply honest IMO.
Scott, I've noticed that you are what I think of as a grown-up here, i.e. you ask informed questions. And I SO agree with your homework/trophy observation.
I guess what I'm saying is that it's more useful--IMO--to choose not to be distracted by Petra's or anyone else's bluntness. She's probably answered that specific question dozens of times; it comes up all the time. I personally have a really hard time holding back the sarcasm sometimes, and often choose not to post an answer, even when I know it could be helpful to the person asking the question, because I simply can't muster the wherewithal not to be snarky about it, whereas I've seen Petra and a few other veterans answer the same questions over and over and over, with more patience than I will ever bring. They're often blunt and sometimes sarcastic, but never gratuitously mean.
Anyway, if you have freelance chops already then you'll probably succeed here. I've connected with clients whom I never in a million years would have found (or would have found me) out in teh world at large.
Feb 17, 2019 02:53:01 PM by Scott S
I was probably caught off guard. I'm also glass half full so I think there is a chance of success here. One could say I have success regardless of no contracts yet since I've not allowed myself to be taken advantage of. So thank you again.