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OFFICIAL PROPOSAL TO UPWORK: Failure in Job Success Score algorithm

Active Member
Arto K Member Since: May 11, 2019
11 of 21
Often clients don't want to leave feedback. They are not happy, but don't want to ruin the freelancer's profile either. So they let the freelancer close the contract so they don't have to leave feedback. So forcing this does not do freelancers any favours...

 

Well, that makes it even more important to have the feedback forced.

 

I'm not looking for 5-star reviews if I haven't earned them. But having forced feedback would give clearer picture of the true skills of the freelancer. UpWork often talks about updates that they are "good for the overall community of clients and freelancers". This would definitely be that kind of update, don't you agree?

 

Also the thought of "maybe they don't want to because I did something wrong" has crossed my mind. By then I definitely wan't to know how I did not meet the satisfaction of the clients to make sure that I improve my working methods accordingly. We learn from out mistakes.

 

>Clients can't always know how the contract will pan out after the first milestone

Feedback is left after the contract has ended. Otherwise it's shown as "job in progress". Correct me if I'm wrong, but review can be left only after the contract has closed?

Community Guru
Will L Member Since: Jul 9, 2015
12 of 21
Yes, that would be real feedback, which is not the purpose of the JSS system.


I'd prefer that Upwork tell the client the freelancer will automatically
receive "average" ratings across the board after a contract is completed
unless the client selects other ratings.


Only clients who were dissatisfied or very satisfied would be motivated to
leave more specific feedback and the idea of a freelancer's performance
being "average" would lose some of it's current stigma.


Right now, every freelancer wants their JSS to say they are above average,
which is not a possibility even the average high school graduate can
understand.



Community Guru
Christine A Member Since: May 4, 2016
13 of 21

Arto K wrote:
Often clients don't want to leave feedback. They are not happy, but don't want to ruin the freelancer's profile either. So they let the freelancer close the contract so they don't have to leave feedback. So forcing this does not do freelancers any favours...

 

Well, that makes it even more important to have the feedback forced.

 

I'm not looking for 5-star reviews if I haven't earned them. But having forced feedback would give clearer picture of the true skills of the freelancer. UpWork often talks about updates that they are "good for the overall community of clients and freelancers". This would definitely be that kind of update, don't you agree?

 

Also the thought of "maybe they don't want to because I did something wrong" has crossed my mind. By then I definitely wan't to know how I did not meet the satisfaction of the clients to make sure that I improve my working methods accordingly. We learn from out mistakes.

 


I seriously don't think that FORCING clients to leave feedback is going to benefit the community in any way, and if anything, it will negatively impact JSS scores if you start annoying clients by giving them more hoops to jump through. You can talk about wanting honesty, but at the end of the day, a JSS score of 89% vs. 90%+ means the difference between getting jobs vs. not getting jobs, so if you ask a client for feedback and don't get a response, then you're better off not pestering them.

 

As for your desire to know whether your clients are satisfied... personally, I have a pretty good idea of what the client thinks of my work based on our communication on the message board, so I don't need little stars to tell me whether I've done a good job or not. But if you really want to know, why not just ask them? "Are you completely satisfied with my work, or is there anything else that I can do for you?" That would be better customer service than demanding that your clients fill out a feedback review.

 

Community Guru
Will L Member Since: Jul 9, 2015
14 of 21

Right, Christine.

 

Allowing their feedback on freelancers to default to "average" should make clients happy - they'd have to do even less than the current JSS system requires.

Community Guru
Richard W Member Since: Jun 22, 2017
15 of 21

Will L wrote:

Right, Christine.

 

Allowing their feedback on freelancers to default to "average" should make clients happy - they'd have to do even less than the current JSS system requires.


That would be to the disadvantage of freelancers with an above-average JSS, so I'm against it. 😉

 

Currently, jobs with earnings but no feedback are excluded from the JSS, which is more or less equivalent to giving them a score equal to the freelancer's own average score. That seems better than your suggestion, under which a no-feedback job would drag an above-average JSS down and lift a below-average JSS up.

 

Freelancers are only penalised for no-feedback jobs in two special cases: (1) jobs with no earnings, and (2) freelancers with an "excessive" proportion of no-feedback jobs. Instead of your suggestion, you should be objecting to those special rules (assuming you don't like them). I would agree that the first case is in need of a change. The second case seems relatively unimportant, as I think it affects only a few freelancers.

Active Member
Arto K Member Since: May 11, 2019
16 of 21

>so if you ask a client for feedback and don't get a response, then you're better off not pestering them.

Is that not the point of this post?

 

>But if you really want to know, why not just ask them?

Surprisingly enough, I actually do that.

 

What comes to "hoops to go through" we're talking seconds here, not a 10-page detailed questionnaire.

Community Guru
Richard W Member Since: Jun 22, 2017
17 of 21

Hi Arto. If I've counted correctly, you have 6 jobs with feedback, and your JSS of 83% equals 5/6 to the nearest percent. Coincidence? I think not. I would say that one of your clients left you not-so-good private feedback, perhaps the one who left five stars but no text. That would fully explain your JSS. As Petra said, jobs with no feedback don't affect your JSS unless you have an "excessive" proportion of them. We don't know what the critical proportion is, but I think it's safe to say that you don't have it.

 

There are flaws in the JSS system, but I can't see Upwork making the change you're asking for. Personally, I'm saving my petition ammunition for my own hobby horse: getting Upwork to fix the error in its time tracker algorithm which causes it to overcharge clients.

Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
18 of 21

People are so freakin one dimensional. Sometimes, a client not leaving feedback is a GOOD thing when they're not happy. You don't want to force clients to leave feedback. When a client is kinda "meh" on the work, lots of them will tend to just disappear and don't want to leave feedback. They're not raging mad unhappy. They're just kinda "meh." This is when you don't want to be the "plz give me feedback sir" type of person and just let them disappear and close it yourself.

 

And yeah, this doesn't cover hourly where you have months and months of just automatic payments.

Ace Contributor
Christopher H Member Since: Feb 1, 2019
19 of 21

I think forcing feedback is not a good idea...For example if you catch me on the wrong day, I can be a grumpy sod and If on one of those days some website has an annoying pop-up forcing me to do something when I'm trying to do something else...I am not going to be a happy camper at all and you will receive my ire!

Active Member
Jill W Member Since: Jun 15, 2016
20 of 21

I believe the JSS is highly flawed. 

 

I have had my account open since 2013. I have never had a poor review, tons of 5 star ratings and every client said they would recommend me. I took a year off Upwork came back, got a job right away, closed out another contract with a 5 star rating and took another test on Upwork. This was all in 7 weeks. Two 5 star ratings with raving reviews. 

 

I do not even have a JSS. I contacted chat support and they said it is because I have had 6 paid contracts in 24 months, because I took long term positions. So basically I have to get 2 more jobs and close both of those contracts before I can get my rating back?! 

 

You have got to be kidding me? They are costing me money. We all know the clients who are willing to pay the higher rates are the ones who look for rising talent and 90% JSS or higher! I feel this is very unjust. If you provide a reference for an inn-house job they don't ask for a time frame, so why is it different with Freelance. I performed the work and earned the rating. I should be able to maintain my rating, unless I have a negative review, even in which case the negative review should be up for review, as we all know some clients are impossible to work for. 

 

Anyone else have this experience? 

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