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Something about nothing

Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
11 of 30

Richard S wrote:

I think that you and others are missing the part of the user agreement that I quoted. There is nothing to report here. Freelancers are allowed to subcontract. Period.

 

*Sighs* Yes Rene, but are they able to just clearly and deliberately give the impression that they are working as an individual, when clearly they are not?


There is nothing as far as I know in the user agreement that says that they have to disclose on their profile that they are subcontracting, or may subcontract. As a consequence, while you can flag the profile as much as you want, this won't trigger any action from Upwork.

 

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
12 of 30

Rene is right. They are allowed to subcontract and I doubt Upwork will kill an account that's made $300k over something like this. Don't even waste your time. 

 

They have a high volume farmer from Elance who made $3 million + that does this too and she has no agency either. She actually said they told her to remove the agency and just farm out on her main profile. Upwork doesn't care if someone is making bank.

Community Guru
Abinadab A Member Since: Sep 26, 2016
13 of 30

Thank you, Jennifer for your solid response.

 

Richard, I was about to ask you,

You said the FL had a spat with a client. Is it your spat?

Does Do you have proof that the freelancer is not actually the one doing the work?

Did the client involved in the spat tell you he doesn't know how to report a freelancer to Upwork?

 

It is possible the FL did not fully disclose how he goes about completing his projects. This is not the same thing as scam, the last I checked. Do you know if the FL also owns the company?

Just FYI, whenever you see the words "full-stack", "chief", "manager", "consultant" or similar next to a freelancer's title, the likelihood exists the freelancer didn't do all the tasks by himself. The percentage of tasks the FL is actually completing by himself makes the difference between "farmer", project manager, agency and freelancer.

Just so when you finally see the Upwork FL that has 3 million USD in earnings on his profile, you don't go about dreaming that that was his take-home pay.

For avoidance of doubt, note that I'm not endorsing farming or any of the above. I work as a freelancer, and complete my projects myself (you can check my profile since you were curious {set to Upwork users only} ).

 

Just saying why I maintain, just like your title says, that this is quite some ado about nothing.

 

Community Leader
Richard S Member Since: Mar 12, 2019
14 of 30

There is nothing as far as I know in the user agreement that says that they have to disclose on their profile that they are subcontracting, or may subcontract. As a consequence, while you can flag the profile as much as you want, this won't trigger any action from Upwork.

 

Thank you Rene .As I explained in my initial post, this wasn't about my being annoyed, wanting to flag them etc (although the more you tell me that what they are doing is apparently ok, the more inclined I am to raise it), simply something that I thought was worthy of discussion. I have to say though (again) that they are not subcontracting (unless the profile is a misleading cover for the Agency involved), but an individual the work is being sub-contracted to. Either way, it dosn't sit right.

 

Community Guru
Anthony H Member Since: Feb 22, 2017
15 of 30

So, OK, Richard -- 25,000 hours worked times $8 per hour is $200,000, right on the nose, not $300,000 -- that's my first thought.

Secondly ... what kind of company makes a profit charging $8 an hour ... which means they have to have overhead and whatever (whatever means expenses) and that makes their take less than $8 an hour? What services do this guys provide where they can make a profit at $8 per hour? Is this a service where people look out the window for you? That's about half the minimum wage last I knew. 

Furthermore, they get one-star reviews and have a job success rating of 100 percent? Did I catch that right?

In other words, nothing adds up here. Then did you write, "They can have their stats assigned to them?" 

OK, without being too crude here, WTF is going on? And what service do they provide? Am I being underbid by companies earning $8 per hour? That doesn't add up either. What am I missing here?


Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
16 of 30

Anthony H wrote:


Furthermore, they get one-star reviews and have a job success rating of 100 percent? Did I catch that right?


More contracts one has under their belt, less the JSS varies. It the present case, one isolated bad outcome won't make it move.

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Community Leader
Richard S Member Since: Mar 12, 2019
17 of 30

Hi Rene, this 'person' has plenty of 4 star reviews under their belt too and yet no impact on their JSS.

 

Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
18 of 30

Richard S wrote:

Hi Rene, this 'person' has plenty of 4 star reviews under their belt too and yet no impact on their JSS.

 


How old are the 4 stars? Also stars are nice, but there are other factors that weight into the JSS, for instance long contracts and returning clients.

 

Your Job Success Score on Upwork

 

 

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
19 of 30

Anthony H wrote:

So, OK, Richard -- 25,000 hours worked times $8 per hour is $200,000, right on the nose, not $300,000 -- that's my first thought.


The hours only count for hourly projects, so they must have $100k+ in escrow jobs.

Community Guru
Wendy C Member Since: Aug 24, 2015
20 of 30

Richard, as has been explained .... a FL is EITHER independent or affiliated with an agency - or, in the case you're  pointing out, a farmer.

 

If is AGAINST ToS to masquerade as an independent FL if with an agency .. and far more unsavory and against ToS if doing do so as a farmer.

 

Report the dang profile.  It probably won't do any good but at least you did the right thing.

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