Taking Discussions off UW

resultsassoc · ‎05-03-2018

My prospective client and I are attempting to have an interactive conversation. I've tried UW's interactive voice/chat facility multiple times, and it has yet to work. UW itself suggests using Skype or Google Hangout for chat to explore a fit.

We are exchanging phone numbers and Skype IDs, and each instance is met with a suggestion that it is dangerous to use channels outside UW, and to use UW's own channels. I would love to, if they worked. If it is important to keep discussions inside UW, then please invest in a functioning facility. There are COTS solutions available, a paint-by-number will work. We don't need a Picasso.

I acknowledge the very real threat of people agreeing to cut UW out of the middle to save money. Anyone doing so is both unethical and short-sighted. UW provides a valuable service, and cannot do so without being paid. If my trading partner will cheat the middleman, he will cheat me as well.

The potential threat is large, but I cannot believe the actual threat deserves much attention. On UW and elsewhere I eventually am in direct contact with nearly all of my clents and freelancers anyway. The underlying problem is behavioral, something for which UW has a single arrow in its quiver, the threat. Rather than looking to lawyers and programmers to deal with the issue, I suggest you consult briefly with a behavioral expert. A business anthropologist could resolve this for you.

Part of the solution is education, something at which UW excels for both freelancers and clients who have no online job board experience, and little general business experience that would allow intuiting the basics. After that, not so much. Read the TOS and comply. Give me a break. If one is going to cheat, reading the TOS will not stop him. Understanding the systemic implications of cheating may well stop some; being told explicitly that if your trading partner is willing to cheat the middleman, he is willing to cheat you, will stop others unable to intuit the obvious.

Please, either provide a working function, or stop nagging us.

resultsassoc · ‎05-06-2018

A similar issue exists with payment gateways, specifically the 800-pound gorilla. Every time I mention it, I get scolded for trying to avoid being paid through UW.

I was working with an entrepreneur who wanted to create a new payment gateway, to compete with (you know who). How do I avoid using the term? In another case, a prospective client's revenue numbers are skewed because he doesn't allow for the fees associated with payment gateways, such as (you know who). That significantly affected his early subscription revenue projection, because of his low price per transaction. It is possible to be paid by (you know who) in single-digit pennies if the transaction is small enough.

I recall, years ago, a series of television commercials touting that "our products are untouched by human hands." If the phrase isn't copyrighted, it could be used proudly by UW.

wendy_writes · ‎05-07-2018

Adding my two cents ...

A potential client and I had a call set up for Sunday morning east coast time ... we tried to do it via Upwork. What a joke.

That is the last time I will even try to use the Upwork 'I wanna be like Skype' system.

It does not work.

versailles · ‎05-07-2018

I used Upwork's audio and video feature twice with success. A third attempt failed from the client's side, but I'm not sure if she hadn't an issue on her laptop.

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"Where darkness shines like dazzling light" —William Ashbless

purplepony · ‎05-08-2018

@Rene K wrote:
I used Upwork's audio and video feature twice with success. A third attempt failed from the client's side, but I'm not sure if she hadn't an issue on her laptop.
__________________________________________________________________________
Hmmm...2 out of 3 would be less than 67%. In JSS terms---not too good.

mthornton-cpc · ‎05-08-2018

@Pat M wrote:
@Rene K wrote:
I used Upwork's audio and video feature twice with success. A third attempt failed from the client's side, but I'm not sure if she hadn't an issue on her laptop.
__________________________________________________________________________
Hmmm...2 out of 3 would be less than 67%. In JSS terms---not too good.

Could be even lower with private feedback.

gilbert-phyllis · ‎05-08-2018

Make clear from the get-go that all financial transactions will occur on Upwork. Use whatever comms tools work for you and the client, including but not limited to phone, Skype (chat and/or voice), Google Hangout, email. Ignore UW's automated knee-jerk pop-up warnings when you exchange contact info.

Yes, the pop-ups are aggravating, primarily (IMO) because they represent yet one more thing UW does to supposedly guard against a common transgression, that is actually an exercise in complete futility. Who thinks someone bent on circumvention will stop and reconsider because of that pop-up warning?

Anywho, this falls into the category of "aggravates but does not impede."

resultsassoc · ‎05-08-2018

Ah, yes, quoting Custer's last transmission: "Aggravates, but does not impede."

allergywriter · ‎05-10-2018

So here is what I do...and I tell customer I am going to do it.

When we need to talk off platform, we do. Client calls me or asks me to call them. We chat, outline next steps on a job or discuss what is happening with one. We hang up. I go to workroom for the job and enter my notes about the conversation and say I'm just preserving a record of the call. I've yet to have a client complain about this process and many of them thank me, because it does 2 things

#1 makes sure we are on the same page and there are no communication issues

#2 keeps a record if either of us need to go back and refer to what was discussed

I add a #3 keeps me protected if there is ever a dispute about a job, I've got a record in the workroom.

resultsassoc · ‎05-10-2018

Cheryl, that's how most experienced freelancers do it. It's how I've deliered executive coaching for nearly two decades; I upload a log of the conversation to the work room when I submit the invoice.

The situation may well be irritating only, but that's today. UW's freelancer-management model is built on mistrust, threats and penalties. Such is life. If UW ever considers off-platform discussions too risky, it will prohibit them. Of course, the people who will suffer most will be clients, but that's always the case.The policy against off-platform payment is understandable. The nagging about off-platform communication is a faint prodrome to a seizure.