Reply
cancel
Showing results for 
Search instead for 
Did you mean: 
Reply

Re: The rate debate

Community Guru
Alexandra H Member Since: Jul 30, 2015
31 of 73

Someone told me yesterday that luxury goods such as super-expensive leather bags get shredded and thrown away if they are not sold. Okay, so maybe this doesn't fit here -- sorry --, but isn't it better to offer something (including a service) at a decent rate and see it find a taker than go around claiming a top price level and then go and WASTE RESOURCES?! (Sorry about the caps, but waste always make me mad.)

Community Guru
Kathryn B Member Since: Jul 22, 2015
32 of 73

First, I want to thank everyone again for truly discussing the issue.  I believe that sometimes having insight into how others think/feel can be a huge benefit in terms of "team" mentality.

 

One great point that I want to highlight is something Daniel C. stated.  "$25 is a hobby for one person, but to another it could really improve the quality of their life, and the lives of the people they care about."

 

In terms of how Daniel put it, that same $25, just 1/5 of what i could have charged, could be the entire world to someone else on this platform depending on where they live and their current situation.  Understanding that is hard sometimes, but I give huge kudos when I see someone who does understand it.

 

Also, I promised to come back to what Jennifer M had asked.

 

 I had to seriously sit back and think about it because I am a mother of four.  I have been the sole provider for my family, and I have been a co-provider.  The majority of the past 16 years have been spent as the sole provider and as a single parent.  

 

Those facts made it hard for me to read the question without feeling a bit threatened and I have to say THANK YOU JENNIFER.  Your question made me take a deeper look at why it bothered me and I appreciate that so very much.  I understand why you asked, as I've seen the same thing.  I respect a working mother who comes here with the desire to provide more.  That is why I work through UpWork as a secondary income.  One set of articles paid for my oldest son's martial arts program, something we could not have done otherwise.

 

Granted, charging a higher rate may have paid for two years of that program, etc., but perhaps the client would have gone with someone cheaper.  In that case, my son would not currently be enrolled in a program that serves to enrich his life.  For myself, the choice was worth it.  I'm not sure if this really answers your question, but I hope it does.

~I am only here when I can tolerate having my eyes blasted, my privacy treated like a joke, and my temper pushed to it's limit. For all other times, please request alternate contact methods~
Community Guru
Rene K Member Since: Jul 10, 2014
33 of 73

@Kathryn B wrote:

That is why I work through UpWork as a secondary income.  


Me too. I draw only 25% of my income from here. And this is why I am raising my rates as often as I can and why I simply don't accept low rates. It's because I don't give a rat's bottom if the client goes for a cheaper provider.

 

I aim at two things:

 

1) to have a lot of time to spend on a job so I can do all the research and refinements that are needed to deliver a near to perfect, professional result

 

2) to earn as much as I can by working a given amount of time

 

#1 has proved to be a good choice, serious clients appreciate what I deliver

 

#2 allows me to earn some fri*kin good money, I mean really

 

I would never have reached those two goals and a perfect cred with 1 penny per word cheapos.

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless
Community Guru
Reinier B Member Since: Nov 3, 2015
34 of 73

Kathryn said-

 

"First, I want to thank everyone again for truly discussing the issue.  I believe that sometimes having insight into how others think/feel can be a huge benefit in terms of "team" mentality."

 

Kathryn, I think you are overthinking the issue to the point where you are creating a huge problem for yourself. Not meaning to be harsh, but why do you care so much about what others think?

 

There is no "team" mentality on Upwork- it is only you against hundreds of thousands of other writers, which means that you cannot afford charity, or that "warm and fuzzy" feeling that comes with knowing (or thinking) that you have helped someone by charging only 20% of your usual rate. Doing charity is simpy not good business.

 

Clients simply don't care about your financial situation, or that it makes you feel good to charge them rates that you cannot afford. You say that you live in an area where the cost of living is very high- that may be true and if it is, why not make as much money as you can, when you can? All other considerations are a waste of time that could be used to deliver a great product to more clients at rates that don't cause you sleepless nights about unpaid bills, so why not follow Rene's advice?

 

Raise your rates, work fewer hours for a higher return, and stop seeing your presence here as a hobby. Instead, start charging professional rates without feeling guilty about not "helping" a client out. The only rewards that are worth having is being able to pay the bills, and to have money left over to put aside for rainy days, and the only way to do that is not working for charity.

 

Clients don't care about you wanting to help them out simply for the love of their cause, so stop doing that. You'll be amazed at how much money you suddenly make when you value your work.  

 

 

Highlighted
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
35 of 73

@Reinier B wrote:

 

 

There is no "team" mentality on Upwork- it is only you against hundreds of thousands of other writers,

 


 What a horrible outlook. I'm sure there are some writers who see themselves as "against" others in their field, but many of us certainly do not. Plenty of professional writers go out of their way every day to teach, mentor, encourage, coach, etc. newer writers, and we all have the capacity to learn from one another no matter how much experience we have. 

 

What you're describing sounds like a very bleak way to live and work.

Community Guru
Reinier B Member Since: Nov 3, 2015
36 of 73

@Tiffany S wrote:

@Reinier B wrote:

 

 

There is no "team" mentality on Upwork- it is only you against hundreds of thousands of other writers,

 


 What a horrible outlook. I'm sure there are some writers who see themselves as "against" others in their field, but many of us certainly do not. Plenty of professional writers go out of their way every day to teach, mentor, encourage, coach, etc. newer writers, and we all have the capacity to learn from one another no matter how much experience we have. 

 

What you're describing sounds like a very bleak way to live and work.


 Perhaps I should have made myself clearer, but I don't think we are talking about the same thing.

 

You are of course correct in saying that some writers are mentoring and teaching others, and that is GOOD thing, but I don't think that is what the OP had in mind when she used the term "team" mentality, but I apologize to the OP if I misunderstood her meaning.

 

What I was talking about was that when it comes to earning money, we are all competing against hundreds of thousands of other writers. In that context, there is no "team" mentality, nor should there be if we want to be able to pay all of our bills all of the time. I don't think there are many writers here (if any) that can afford to help clients out by working at hugely discounted rates merely because it makes them feel good about themselves, or because they fear the client may go with a cheaper provider.

 

The only thing many, if not most clients see in discounted rates is a provider that does not value him/herself properly, and if the provider undervalues him/herself, why should the client value that provider?

 

Having said that though, not all clients are bad and I have worked with some truly amazing clients here and elsewhere. However, bad clients are like leeches, in the sense that they latch onto a provider, and they never let go until they have sucked the life out that provider. Working at discounted rates offers a bad client an opportunity to latch on, and the only way to prevent that happening is to deliver a professional product at  professional rates.

 

So no, there can be no team mentality when it comes to making a living from Upwork.  

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
37 of 73

Thanks for clarifying.

 

I think that I mostly agree with you. There are exceptions, though. 

 

I worked with one client on Upwork at about half of my regular hourly rate simply because she was a sole proprietor of a brand new start-up and she posted a project that I thought would be fun. Sometimes, it just depends on how something strikes you and how much time you have available (at least for me). Definitely agree that it can't be the standard way of doing business if you want to make a living, though.

Community Guru
Reinier B Member Since: Nov 3, 2015
38 of 73

@Tiffany S wrote:

Thanks for clarifying.

 

I think that I mostly agree with you. There are exceptions, though. 

 

I worked with one client on Upwork at about half of my regular hourly rate simply because she was a sole proprietor of a brand new start-up and she posted a project that I thought would be fun. Sometimes, it just depends on how something strikes you and how much time you have available (at least for me). Definitely agree that it can't be the standard way of doing business if you want to make a living, though.


 You are absolutely right about there being exceptions, but I would like to add that it would be totally heartless to refuse to ever help someone simply as a matter of principle.

 

I often help students of astronomy, not by doing their assignments for them, but by explaining abstruse astronomical concepts and terms in ways that makes it easier for them to pass their exams on their own.

 

 

Community Guru
Daniel C Member Since: Nov 21, 2010
39 of 73

-

Community Guru
Wendy C Member Since: Aug 24, 2015
40 of 73

YES!!! to Daniel's comment - "Education is the great equalizer. Focus on mentoring and passing on your knowledge and teaching your craft. Don't sell yourself short, English and writing is valuable to anyone looking to get ahead in business. Race to the top, not to the bottom. "  And the same sentiment holds true for every speciality.

 

When I asked the question / posted the very unofficial poll - this is exactly what I was alluding to.  True mentoring or guidance is, IMO, best offered in the give and take of emails - which have to be initialed via PM.

TOP SOLUTION AUTHORS
TOP KUDOED MEMBERS