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queppelintech
Community Member

Upwork "do not share the details of our process"

A few of the recently updated algorithms on Upwork are not public. Calculation of Job Success Score and Approval of Testimonials are two such examples.

 

A recent rejection of a genuine testimonial (insulting the client) and a lowering JSS of my profile, despite having a decent recent year or two, makes me inquire (or question) Upwork's algorithms to calculate the JSSs and approve the testimonials.

 

I had a recent frustrating discussion with Upwork customer care and all they have to say is 'To better ensure the integrity of our review, we do not share the details of our process." I understand in order to avoid grey-hat strategies freelancers employ to get a better score & feedback, but despite some proofs provided Upwork covers everything up under a shadow of the "we do not share our internal process" thing. 

 

What should the user do?

 

 

 

11 REPLIES 11
luce-neidert
Community Member

I guess there's not much you can do except doing your best whenever you are working for a client.

 

Upwork is the boss and decides what to do with their platform. If you don't like its rules, just go elsewhere.

I didn't mean to say that Lucy. However, my genuine concern is how do we improve when we do not know where to work on. If I don't know my fault, I should either stop relying on that feature (say testimonials) or continue getting punched by them.

Nick, I don't know what your "fault" is and I didn't particularly tailor my anwer to your situation.

 

I just do my best to get every one of my jobs done well and on time, but once in a while I'm disapointed by the feedback. I try not to worry too much about it, as some people are never happy. I do think of asking the client what he/she is not happy about, but to tell you the truth, I don't think hassling the client would make things better, and if someone wasn't happy with my work, he's not going to hire me again anyway. 

 

Before bidding for a job with a new client, it's worth to have a look at the kind of feedback the client leaves. Some people are never happy, just avoid them!


Nick Q wrote:

I didn't mean to say that Lucy. However, my genuine concern is how do we improve when we do not know where to work on. If I don't know my fault, I should either stop relying on that feature (say testimonials) or continue getting punched by them.


You may find it helpful to remember that the JSS is not meant as a feedback mechanism to help FLs improve. It's a tool designed for clients, to help them sift through the thousands -- sometimes tens of thousands -- of available FLs in the category they are searching.

 

The presumption is that FLs working here are professionals who possess -- or quickly develop -- the skills and experience to troubleshoot less-than-optimal outcomes and learn from those experiences without needing UW's intervention (which in any case is not and should not be forthcoming). That experience includes being able to "read" a client and sense when they are not entirely satisfied and, ideally, figure out why.

 

 

1000  kudos, Phyllis

 

"The presumption is that FLs working here are professionals who possess -- or quickly develop -- the skills and experience to troubleshoot less-than-optimal outcomes and learn from those experiences without needing UW's intervention (which in any case is not and should not be forthcoming). That experience includes being able to "read" a client and sense when they are not entirely satisfied and, ideally, figure out why."

Hi Wendy ,

 

I can accept that, give my best but how do I determine that the calculation is good. Just that Upwork is a great and internationally acclaimed platform, should everyone blindly follow it?

Just to add even Facebook and Amazon have to answer things.

"You may find it helpful to remember that the JSS is not meant as a feedback mechanism to help FLs improve."

 

I would rather disagree here. Upwork isn't only a portal for clients, its a mechanism that connects clients with freelancers, making things not only compatible between the two parties but also making itself suitable for each other by helping each of them find a suitable partner.

 

If Upwork tells that JSS is only for clients and nothing about freelancers, I would call it a scam where upwork uses certain statistics vital to the freelancer and share them with clients without the freelancer's knowledge of what it is sharing. But I am sure that's not the case. Consider the GDPR thing.

 

Nevertheless, my question is simple - why is upwork always hesitant to share the mechanisms for various features it offers including JSS calculation and testimonial acceptance. If a user doesn't know what mistake is he doing (including the ones mentioned in the announcements), it is just like a teacher here to take a test providing paper and pen, without any improvements offered.


Nick Q wrote:

 

If Upwork tells that JSS is only for clients and nothing about freelancers, I would call it a scam where upwork uses certain statistics vital to the freelancer and share them with clients without the freelancer's knowledge of what it is sharing. But I am sure that's not the case. Consider the GDPR thing.


Whaaaaaaat? 


Nick Q wrote:

why is upwork always hesitant to share the mechanisms for various features it offers including JSS calculation and testimonial acceptance. 


This has been answered already. It's to stop people playing the system. 


Nick Q wrote:

 

If a user doesn't know what mistake is he doing (including the ones mentioned in the announcements), it is just like a teacher here to take a test providing paper and pen, without any improvements offered.


The mistake the user is making is not delivering a quality service. 

The vast majority of clients are looking for people who already know how to do the job. Not to take on board people who need training or educating. The JSS reflects this, generally speaking. 

@Jamie

 

1. YES

 

2. To stop people playing foul is great. But it should not be a hindrance to improvements.

 

3. Incase of JSS, quality service (hence great private & public feedbacks) is the ultimate urge. How would you explain a no-reason-given rejection of testimonials?

 

"The vast majority of clients are looking for people who already know how to do the job. Not to take on board people who need training or educating. The JSS reflects this, generally speaking. " 

I fully comprehend this point, however my question is my marks are being calculated in a test where in many cases I do not even know which input of mine is wrong and how should I improve this. Upwork has a flat answer to everything "we do not share the details of our process."

PS: Upwork allows clients to give bad private feedback and a great public one. I think that deserves a discussion too.


Nick Q wrote:

 

I fully comprehend this point, however my question is my marks are being calculated in a test where in many cases I do not even know which input of mine is wrong and how should I improve this. Upwork has a flat answer to everything "we do not share the details of our process."

 


You improve your marks by getting better at your job. Or perhaps by dropping down a level. It really is quite that simple and, again, the JSS is there to help judge the freelancer's skills. NOT a tool to help the freelancer develop. 

And I don't know about you, but my reviews are not the only feedback I have from my clients. I mean, if they are not happy with something then they usually let me know. Are you not communicating with your clients or something? As somebody else mentioned above, there's a skill freelancers need which is to be able to read how a contract is going and if the client is unhappy about something. 

You seem to be missing a point or two.

Regardless. The system is not going to change for you so it's a case of like it or lump it. That's enough from me for today - I have work to be getting on with. 

"by dropping down a level."

- what does that mean?

 

"Are you not communicating with your clients or something?"

- That is a perennial process throughout the project, we in realism come to know if the client is happy or has concerns. Issues are addressed/sorted on immediate basis.

 

"my reviews are not the only feedback I have from my clients."

- Certainly.

 

"The system is not going to change for you so it's a case of like it or lump it."

- Thats too harsh to learn that the system has no time for accepting feedback. Is that so Upwork team? I am sure Upwork is a portal matured up yet looking forward to improving through their user's voice and not being adamant just like @Jamie states.

 

"Like it or Leave it"

- How about evolving with it? I would choose to improve along with the portal.

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