Where are the rules ...

allpurposewriter · ‎03-15-2019

A few quick questions:

1. Where are the rules written out for clients?
2. Specifically, where is the rule written down that says "Thou Shalt Not Hire Someone To Write Fraudulent Reviews"?

3. Is there a whistleblower protection clause anywhere?

As you might guess, I just reported a client for asking me to produce bogus reviews. My main concern, aside from this guy's abusive tactics, is that this client will simply turn around and give me a horrid review.

Thanks.

petra_r · ‎03-15-2019

Anthony H wrote:

A few quick questions:

1. Where are the rules written out for clients?
2. Specifically, where is the rule written down that says "Thou Shalt Not Hire Someone To Write Fraudulent Reviews"?
3. Is there a whistleblower protection clause anywhere?

1)in the terms of service

2) reviews for what? Amazon, for example, have a "no paid reviews" policy and any paid review violates Amazon's terms of service, therefor the job violates Upwork's. But Amazon tends to sue the freelancers (over a thousand at a time) rather than the client.

3) no. you are expected to understand what you are agreeing to before accepting a contract.

Anthony H wrote:

As you might guess, I just reported a client for asking me to produce bogus reviews.

Why did you accept the contract?

allpurposewriter · ‎03-15-2019

Hi Petra,

The client wants bogus reviews for his own website and business.

I accepted because the client advertised (posted) for articles written. I wrote a couple, got paid, got pat on the back, then the next batch of assignments came in: "Write a positive review about my business saying how amazing it was."

At this point, I felt cornered. I had asked for more work after the first two were done, but more than that, we still had an open contract and I figured if I refused the new assignments, I would be slammed with a cr ppy review, which I certainly don't need.

I ended up writing the articles, which I consider unethical to the core, but I didn't know at the time that it was also technically against the Upwork rules to ask someone to write something fraudulent.

I found that out, because I called the support line (love the support line) on another question and I inadvertently said, "Hey, how would you handle a client who pulled a bait and switch then asked you to write a fraudulent review for him?" and the phone support reply was: Well, it's against the rules for clients to ask you to write sometrhing fraudulent like a positive fake review. Greatly relieved, I quickly reported the particulars, well documented, I might add.

So, thanks. Now I know I'm supposed to understand what the job is before agreeing to a contract, despite the possibility that clients: A) Don't all communicate accurately and B) Don't play by the rules every time.

That said, my question was: Are there protections against whistleblower freelancers when there is, technically, an open contract and money paid, yet the client pulls a switch on you and starts asking for unethical work to be done?

Can we get an answer to that? That would help. Thanks.

jr-translation · ‎03-15-2019

Anthony H wrote:
Hi Pertra,

The client wants bogus reviews for his own website and business.

I accepted because the client advertised (posted) for articles written. I wrote a couple, got paid, got pat on the back, then the next batch of assignments came in: "Write a positive review about my business saying how amazing it was."

That's where we are now.

So it is one of the cases where the client keeps adding milestones without discussing them with the freelancer and the freelancer worries about the feedback. I wonder when Upwork comes up with a solution for unwanted milestones.

allpurposewriter · ‎03-15-2019

Jennifer,

Thanks. I hadn't even gotten that thought formulated in my mind. This isn't the first time I've been cornered like this, but clients told me that the contract was simply ongoing, so I figured that was the case. Seems niave, but I tend to take people at their word.

Most of the time, of course, it's a job that I'm happy is continuing, so why would I think to complain?

kat303 · ‎03-15-2019

That said, my question was: Are there protections against whistleblower freelancers when there is, technically, an open contract and money paid, yet the client pulls a switch on you and starts asking for unethical work to be done?

No there are no protections for situations such as what you are experiencing. I have no idea why you would write fraudulent fake reviews especially when you considered and felt that they were unethical to the core. And there's no reason why you would feel cornered to do that unless you felt SO desperate for money. What you do on here, freelancing is your business, YOU are the master of your business. You relay what you will do for the client, (you offer your services) and you set your price. You are not obligated or forced into doing anything other then what you originally contracted for.

If you get a bad review, all you have to do is to reply to it professionally. Just say something to the effect: "this client wanted me to write reviews for his website about how amazing it was. Not only was this not specified in the contract, but it is against Upwork's TOS. When I refused the client gave me this review because of that."

How you answer a negative review. (short, professional and to the point) will HELP you more then the negative review may hurt you.

allpurposewriter · ‎03-15-2019

I appreciate your thoughs, Kathy, but there's a glitch in your formula.

The glitch is if you get a bad review: YOU GET LESS WORK.

I have had to confront two clients in the past three, four years. It's not a common occurance. But guess what? Each time they retaliate with a very damaging review.
You suffer for months and yes needed income is lost when you speak up with clients.
If that hasn't happened to you ... great. Good for you. Maybe you do this for beer money. I do this to pay my rent, feed my kids. It has cost me money to speak up in the past and -- guess what -- my criticisms are private, while a client gets to post their retaliation on my profile where every next potenial client gets to see it.

Love the pecking parties in these forums. Support each other, what?

By the way, the second flaw in your answer: I am not allowed to see the review someone gives me until I respond, so I have no idea what I'm responding to.

tlbp · ‎03-16-2019

If you are in an ongoing contract with a client and don't like the assignments that start coming through--extricate yourself from the contract without raising their ire. THEN report any inappropriate behavior. You don't have to tell a client exactly why you want to end a contract.

And, if you think that asking them to close the contract will lead to too many questions, IMO, it is better to close it yourself and hope they don't notice until 14 days has passed.

If your client asked for work that is against the TOS and your reported, Upwork may exclude that client's reviews. But this is a discretionary decision on Upwork's part and I have no reference to it ever happening.

The first round of reviews between client and freelancer is blind. However, once the client's review is visible you can respond to it--just make sure you respond before your period to do so expires.

Btw. the way that your profile summary is formatted, clients probably only see the two lines beginning with "From..." when browsing proposals.

petra_r · ‎03-16-2019

Anthony H wrote:

By the way, the second flaw in your answer: I am not allowed to see the review someone gives me until I respond, so I have no idea what I'm responding to.

Wrong. You can not see the feedback until you have left your own feedback. You can respond (not the same as leaving feedback) after you have seen the feedback that was left for you.

I am not sure what the big deal is. Why didn't you just thank the client for his business and sweetly extricate yourself from the contract on good terms. There is never any need to get into an argument with a client over stuff like that. Get out, then report.

There is no whistleblower policy, especially when it is unclear just how against the terms of service the job really is. The terms of service have no "ethics clause" - Amazon reviews are forbidden because they violate Amazon's terms of service, not because they are "unethical."

allpurposewriter · ‎03-16-2019

Thanks Tonya and Petra. Good advice.

I had resolved to do that this morning, anyway. But it's nice to have that validated.

Petra, I did not know you could respond to feedback in that manner. Thanks for letting me know that.

Good, level-headed advice. Thanks, folks.

renata101 · ‎03-17-2019

Petra R wrote:
Anthony H wrote:

By the way, the second flaw in your answer: I am not allowed to see the review someone gives me until I respond, so I have no idea what I'm responding to.
Wrong. You can not see the feedback until you have left your own feedback. You can respond (not the same as leaving feedback) after you have seen the feedback that was left for you.

I am not sure what the big deal is. Why didn't you just thank the client for his business and sweetly extricate yourself from the contract on good terms. There is never any need to get into an argument with a client over stuff like that. Get out, then report.

There is no whistleblower policy, especially when it is unclear just how against the terms of service the job really is. The terms of service have no "ethics clause" - Amazon reviews are forbidden because they violate Amazon's terms of service, not because they are "unethical."

I totally agree with Petra's advice about "sweetly extracating yourself." This is my response as well. I agree, you want to avoid bad reviews if at all possible, but if the spectre of a bad review is causing you to waiver when the client is proposing something unethical, perhaps it's time to rethink your priorities. I'd rather deal with the potential review hit.

But you may not even have to. The simplest solution I can see once you've identified that what you're being asked for is unethical is to quietly extract yourself by saying "I'm sorry, I know I said X, but my situation has changed and I will no longer be able to handle the work you're proposing." Yes, you can still say "no" even after you've agreed to do the milestone. In this case, you're not going to take a hit by closing a contract where no money has changed hands (and I really wish UpWork would allow freelancers to simply end contracts where no money has changed hands with no potential for JSS penalties. Sometimes things don't work out and sometimes there are details that don't emerge until you've got a better idea of what -- and who--

you're dealing with).

On the outside chance that the client doesn't understand that what they're asking for is unethical, you could quote the rulebook to them. It depends what you've experienced so far. However, it's hard to imagine someone not understanding that this isn't kosher. And if they're asking for something like this, chances are that down the road they might want other things that "push the boundaries" in similar ways.