🐈
» Forums » Coffee Break » Will an influx of freelancers reduce our net ...
Page options
bizwriterjohn
Community Member

Will an influx of freelancers reduce our net competitive position?

Probability is, we will see an influx of freelancers, with either the change-the-mode-of-work or I-have-to-make-money-any-way-I-can.

The general strategy may be for new-to-platform freelancers come in at low-ball rates so as to provide competitive pricing advantage.  At the same time, they will have the usual stresses and complexities of positioning their portfolios and profiles.  Learning the tactics for proposing.  Figuring out delivery strategies.  It is not so very effective to just throw up a profile written in 5 minutes and load in a few portfolio pieces, net-net.

 

It would be interesting if Upwork provided a little dashboard we could dial into under Stats some day, that shows the number of freelancers, net, in the system and the number of job listings for a two week period. That implies a not-so-massive change to the Stats page and would be fascinating to track.

ACCEPTED SOLUTION

Times are dire. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

 

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

View solution in original post

44 REPLIES 44
resultsassoc
Community Member

For a few, that might represent an opportunity to create an agency and bring in other freelancers.The current UW member will want to take time to educate the newbie on how freelancing works, on how Upwork functions, and on how to make money at this. The freelancer might charge for this, or use it to explain why the agency owner is taking 40% of the new freelancer's net revenue up to $500.

 

Be warned, I'm probably not the only really ancient individual and freelancer who has posted on various fora that freelancing is an opportunity to restore lost some lost income, and offered to answer questions about it gratis. I'm surprised that UW hasn't been flooded with jobs from those who need work done but can't bring workers to their sites; UW should also be flooded with new freelancers.

UW is beeing flooded with new freelancers, i am seeing 50+ proposals in the first 5 min.
And wave 2 - advertiseing their skills as job posting, can`t imagine how you can get thet wrong but hei 🙂

Also lots clients that are offering lowest rates ever, and maybe not only because corona, but because people especially new will be accepting them. The overoll profit might just drop for all.




Clients tend to hire on quality, and what they can afford to pay. 

Of all those clients out there now paying what one might consider to be good rates - they have always had the option to pay lower if they so wished. The opportunity to pay less has always been there with countless *cheap* freelancers to choose from.

Why would the virus make them change that? 

Well just for the sake of the argument ,

I would say the virus is changing the world economically,
in advertising, marketing, transportation and so on, budgets are being cut, it’s a lot of instability and many might be extra careful about those extra dollars spent.

In the same time, literally the world has become work from home place right now, or many fear or already lost their jobs.

Let’s say a busy well trained wedding photographer that has never ever considered online freelancing, because he was full of clients, now boom impossible to get clients or do any jobs. (ban on gatherings)

Such an well trained person in also editing and so on will look for alternatives incomes, to get clients might work at the lowest rate possible. Because even that is better than the alternative – 0 income.

Why now a client would now pay double for the same task?  While the client is in the same place as everyone of economic instability.

If you had 10 people offering a service at a rate, now maybe you have 100 doing the same, and the market price has always been determined by supply and demand .


If you had 10 people offering a service at a rate, now maybe you have 100 doing the same, and the market price has always been determined by supply and demand .

That cannot be the only thing that determines a market price because there are as many iphones as I need but they are always the same price.  People buy name brands over generic, even in some cases where they cannot distinguish one product from the next.

 

A client might pay someone with provable experience on the platform over someone who has just started on it because they have some evidence of experience.  I also find that people who can sell their skills when times are flush are not really sales people.  To use your example if there a 10 weddings one fine Saturday and only 9 photographers they don't have to do much sales.  But there is one photographer were all 10 of those people 1 but some can't afford them and the others are too late.

 

If quality isn't a consideration then you are selling a commodity.  An orange is always an orange.

Good point, Mark and the iphone is the perfect example: Supply and demand does dictate price (or 10,000 economists got it wrong) but people who want quality will pay what is required to get it. The iphone is the gadget of the century (or close to it) and Apple went gang-busters right through the Great Recession -- and with a lot of competition that could not keep up.

 

But what happened to the U.S. auto industry. Tesla, representing quality,  surived the Great Recession but two out of three of the big U.S. auto makers, representing more modest quality, took goverment bailouts. 

The top freelancers, similarly, will survive an influx of competition and those at the top of the top will always be able to name their price. But those in the in the middle of the pack might see their incomes slide. 

The other dynamic is that let's say six million new freelance writers join Upwork next week. Some prices go really low. But customers see this as well and they think "Hey, you want good writing at a cheap price go to Upwork." So this balances out the equation, because the dynamic could attract six million new clients, as well. I don't know what this is called economically, but if a new pizza place opens across the street from an established one, the ones who got there first bemoan their fate -- Oh, now we'll lose business to those competitors. But what happens is the area becomes known as a great area for pizza lovers and business goes up, not down. (Not every time ... but that's a common outcome.)

A client pays double for the same task because a wedding photographer who also edits their own photos and decides to sign up for Upwork due to sudden financial hardship is not the same as a professional online freelance photo editor. There are a number of skills involved in being a successful freelancer. And while both options might be able provide a client a solid deliverable, when someone new to freelancing realizes they can't provide quality service or pay their bills or upkeep their professional subscriptions because they lack management or planning or any other skill developed through freelancing successfully, the clients' projects suffer. And we're not even talking about whether a photographer who mainly edits their own photos has the same editing skills or expertise, which is certainly another consideration. 


Dana S wrote:

 

Why now a client would now pay double for the same task?  While the client is in the same place as everyone of economic instability.

If I were a client, I'd rather pay double for the same task by hiring someone who has been on Upwork for a reasonable amount of time and has plenty of experience and reviews.

I am seeing a large uptick in views and invitations.  +30% and +100%.  My sense of things is that established Upworkers have little to fear over this (apparently) massive influx of newcomers.

- It is not so very easy to create a high-quality profile and portfolios take time to develop

- having a history of delivery is the golden lever

- Job Success Scores are seen

 

It could be, with this influx, hiring clients get inundated, don't like what they see, and start issuing invitations to specific individuals they consider qualified for the work.  Hence the parable, or something of that nature.

"The worse they are, the better we look".

Harsh thought.  I wish it would be different.

Times are dire. **Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

 

 

 

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

My views were down 46% last week but my invitations continue to roll in and I'm drowing in work from former clients. I think I'm lucky in that one thing people suddenly have time to do is make their dream of publishing a book come true.


Kelly B wrote:

My views were down 46% last week but my invitations continue to roll in and I'm drowing in work from former clients. I think I'm lucky in that one thing people suddenly have time to do is make their dream of publishing a book come true.


Yes, that's very true - book publishing is experiencing a lot of growth at the moment, so you're in the right place at the right time. Not all industries are experiencing a downturn, so the key is for freelancers to figure out who's still hiring, and target their services.

 

I've also had a great uptick in invitations. Not sure whether this is because Upwork relaxed their previous restrictions, or because clients would rather just go ahead and hire someone who knows what they're doing, instead of getting overwhelmed with bids from unqualified people. Probably a little of both.

 

petra_r
Community Member


Kelly B wrote:

My views were down 46% last week but my invitations continue to roll in and I'm drowing in work from former clients. I think I'm lucky in that one thing people suddenly have time to do is make their dream of publishing a book come true.


My book sales are also up significantly. People have more time to read and also the particular demographic who buy my (non-fiction) book are facing pretty significant challenges during a lock down situation that they would not outside such a time.

 


Petra R wrote:

Kelly B wrote:

My views were down 46% last week but my invitations continue to roll in and I'm drowing in work from former clients. I think I'm lucky in that one thing people suddenly have time to do is make their dream of publishing a book come true.


My book sales are also up significantly. People have more time to read and also the particular demographic who buy my (non-fiction) book are facing pretty significant challenges during a lock down situation that they would not outside such a time.

 


I didn't know you'd written a book - what's it about?


Christine A wrote:

Petra R wrote:

My book sales are also up significantly. People have more time to read and also the particular demographic who buy my (non-fiction) book are facing pretty significant challenges during a lock down situation that they would not outside such a time.

 


I didn't know you'd written a book - what's it about?


Non-fiction, controversial, and under a pseudonym for a reason 😄

I don't mean to seem rude, as this is " veterans" playground but where the persons who genuinely want to be freelancers, who had tried other platforms and other means but failed fit. We are not here to take over anyone's livelihood, we need a chance also, a chance not present before this pandemic.

 

Would love if instead of discussing the effects, the more experienced persons offer mentor ship and guidance to help the newbies ( especially since their seems to be enough for everyone)....but hey what do I kno🙄 I am new.

petra_r
Community Member


Kimberly M wrote:

( especially since their there seems to be enough for everyone)....


That is a fallacy. There isn't "enough for everyone" and there never has been. Even before the huge influx due to the pandemic, the vast (!) majority of new freelancers never won a job or earned a single Dollar.

 


Kimberly M wrote:

 

Would love if instead of discussing the effects, the more experienced persons offer mentor ship and guidance to help the newbies ( especially since their seems to be enough for everyone)....but hey what do I kno🙄 I am new.


Kimberly, a few months ago, I would have told you to make sure your profile was well written and to select jobs to apply to carefully. And to be patient.

However, right now, I would tell you not to waste time trying to get a job on Upwork, as it's not the right time. Things are difficult for everyone, and I only get a job from old clients once in a while. I'm nearly giving up applying to jobs as the result is very disappointing.


Luce N wrote:

Kimberly M wrote:

 

Would love if instead of discussing the effects, the more experienced persons offer mentor ship and guidance to help the newbies ( especially since their seems to be enough for everyone)....but hey what do I kno🙄 I am new.


Kimberly, a few months ago, I would have told you to make sure your profile was well written and to select jobs to apply to carefully. And to be patient.

However, right now, I would tell you not to waste time trying to get a job on Upwork, as it's not the right time. Things are difficult for everyone, and I only get a job from old clients once in a while. I'm nearly giving up applying to jobs as the result is very disappointing.


Based on my experience, I have to disagree. I joined a month ago and have made $600+. I have several ongoing jobs, and yesterday a former client messaged me with a request for another project.

petra_r
Community Member


Amber F wrote:

Based on my experience, I have to disagree. I joined a month ago and have made $600+. I have several ongoing jobs, and yesterday a former client messaged me with a request for another project.

The world and Upwork were very, VERY different a month ago.

 

90ad35d8
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Amber F wrote:

Based on my experience, I have to disagree. I joined a month ago and have made $600+. I have several ongoing jobs, and yesterday a former client messaged me with a request for another project.

The world and Upwork were very, VERY different a month ago.

 


Really? A month ago was full into the crisis.

petra_r
Community Member


Amber F wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Amber F wrote:

Based on my experience, I have to disagree. I joined a month ago and have made $600+. I have several ongoing jobs, and yesterday a former client messaged me with a request for another project.

The world and Upwork were very, VERY different a month ago.

 


Really? A month ago was full into the crisis.


You clearly inhabit a completely different planet to the one I'm on.

 

A month ago there were less than 300 k cases worldwide and not much lockdown outside a few little hotspots. It was mostly "business as usual" for most of the world.

 

Now we have 2 and a half MIllion cases and over 168,000 deaths and the world largely in lockdown.

 

A month ago the Cheltenham Festival in the UK had a quarter of a Million visitors and Britain was fully open, as was most of the US.

90ad35d8
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Amber F wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Amber F wrote:

Based on my experience, I have to disagree. I joined a month ago and have made $600+. I have several ongoing jobs, and yesterday a former client messaged me with a request for another project.

The world and Upwork were very, VERY different a month ago.

 


Really? A month ago was full into the crisis.


You clearly inhabit a completely different planet to the one I'm on.

 

A month ago there were less than 300 k cases worldwide and not much lockdown outside a few little hotspots. It was mostly "business as usual" for most of the world.

 

Now we have 2 and a half MIllion cases and over 168,000 deaths and the world largely in lockdown.

 

A month ago the Cheltenham Festival in the UK had a quarter of a Million visitors and Britain was fully open, as was most of the US.


A month ago, as now, we were on complete lockdown. Schools were closed on March 13. The order to close businesses came March 17.

petra_r
Community Member


Amber F wrote:

A month ago, as now, we were on complete lockdown. Schools were closed on March 13. The order to close businesses came March 17.

"we" ?

Just who is "we" on a global platform?

 

A month ago much of the USA was still running business as usual. Much of the world was not affected.

 

And a month ago the enormous number of new freelancers flooding onto sites like Upwork from all over the globe had barely started to trickle in.

 


Christine wrote:
Petra, are you still doing your graph that keeps track of the overall number of jobs being posted on Upwork, and if so, are you noticing a decline now?

I keep track, but am not including it in my graphs. There is a slight reduction in the number of jobs posted, but it's only slight (around / less than 1%). I am not sure if the quality and value of jobs has stayed the same. Not enough data.

The difference is that jobs now have far more bids as people who used to use Upwork as a sideline or had abandoned their profiles altogether now bid aggressively, and new freelancers flood in.

 

90ad35d8
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Amber F wrote:

A month ago, as now, we were on complete lockdown. Schools were closed on March 13. The order to close businesses came March 17.

"we" ?

Just who is "we" on a global platform?

 

A month ago much of the USA was still running business as usual. MUch of the world was not affected.

 

And a month ago the enormous number of new freelancers flooding onto sites like Upwork from all over the globe had barely started to trickle in.


 Guess I'm speaking from my own experience then. Seattle resident here.

kbadeau
Community Member


Amber F wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Amber F wrote:

A month ago, as now, we were on complete lockdown. Schools were closed on March 13. The order to close businesses came March 17.

"we" ?

Just who is "we" on a global platform?

 

A month ago much of the USA was still running business as usual. MUch of the world was not affected.

 

And a month ago the enormous number of new freelancers flooding onto sites like Upwork from all over the globe had barely started to trickle in.


 Guess I'm speaking from my own experience then. Seattle resident here.


Although I think Governer Ducey (AZ) did not issue shelter in place until April 1, our mayor (Tucson) had pretty much implemented it the weekend after the NHL season shut down (March 12). Seems like NYC was late as well. Florida and other states resisted too. We've been kind of all over the map in the U.S. it seems.


Petra R wrote:

Amber F wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Amber F wrote:

Based on my experience, I have to disagree. I joined a month ago and have made $600+. I have several ongoing jobs, and yesterday a former client messaged me with a request for another project.

The world and Upwork were very, VERY different a month ago.

 


Really? A month ago was full into the crisis.


You clearly inhabit a completely different planet to the one I'm on.

 

A month ago there were less than 300 k cases worldwide and not much lockdown outside a few little hotspots. It was mostly "business as usual" for most of the world.

 

Now we have 2 and a half MIllion cases and over 168,000 deaths and the world largely in lockdown.

 

A month ago the Cheltenham Festival in the UK had a quarter of a Million visitors and Britain was fully open, as was most of the US.


Petra, are you still doing your graph that keeps track of the overall number of jobs being posted on Upwork, and if so, are you noticing a decline now?

" we need a chance also, a chance not present before this pandemic"

 What i see now present is a need, not a chance, unfortunately.


Kimberly M wrote:

 

Would love if instead of discussing the effects, the more experienced persons offer mentor ship and guidance to help the newbies ( especially since their seems to be enough for everyone)....but hey what do I kno🙄 I am new.


There's a wealth of advice and guidance in the forum, especially from some of the people in this thread. Check out the "Freelancers" or "New to Upwork" threads, or create a new thread if you can't find an answer to a question that you have. Also read all of the resources that Upwork provides, on everything from how the website works to how to write a good profile.

 

However, Upwork isn't really intended to be a training ground. Freelancers will find it especially difficult here if they don't already have the ability to market themselves and manage their own business, with all that that involves.

 

So if you have a specific question like, "How does the time-tracker work?" then we can help you, but questions like, "How do I become successful on Upwork?" can't be answered in a paragraph or two, unfortunately.

 

I'll give you one tip, though. Two people can't use the same Upwork account; any activity that indicates otherwise can get your account banned. So if you and your husband are both going to be working on graphic design projects, then he'll need to get his own account, or you'll need to accept only fixed-price contracts and outsource the work to him (and only after obtaining the client's permission).

 


Kimberly M wrote:

I don't mean to seem rude, as this is " veterans" playground but where the persons who genuinely want to be freelancers, who had tried other platforms and other means but failed fit. We are not here to take over anyone's livelihood, we need a chance also, a chance not present before this pandemic.

 

Would love if instead of discussing the effects, the more experienced persons offer mentor ship and guidance to help the newbies ( especially since their seems to be enough for everyone)....but hey what do I kno🙄 I am new.


Kimberly - I am not a veteran; I joined a month ago. Being new doesn't mean I am entitled to special privileges to "give me a chance." I have earned every bit of my success on Upwork.

jenniferhead
Community Member

Is this topic still open? I've been on UW since 2017, and have been very successful. However, lately I have seen a shift. Last week I saw that a job that had only been posted for two minutes already had 10-15 proposals. When I visit jobs that I applied for and didn't get, I see that clients are hiring relatively new freelancers that charge a fraction of my rate and don't even have advanced degrees. Maybe someone with an undergraduate degree in business can do a so-so job of editing a scientific manuscript, but I think the clients get what they pay for. I am mostly patient and wait for the right jobs--for clients that are willing to pay higher rates for the highest quality freelancers. 

I've also noticed that there are a higher number of clients that want expert work done for entry-level wages. Seriously. $20-40/hr to write and/or edit a scientific manuscript? My 14-year-old son makes $20/hr mowing lawns and moving gravel. 

I do see the writing on the wall though for experienced freelancers in flooded fields. Maybe it will balance out eventually as clients realize that they need experts. In any case, I've been diversifying by taking courses on Coursera to branch out into other areas. 


Jennifer H wrote:

My 14-year-old son makes $20/hr mowing lawns and moving gravel.  


And some other mother's 14 year old son makes $0.19 an hour in a sweatshop in Bangladesh.

 

Upwork is a global platform.

Yes, I understand that. That is not in question. I have Indian colleagues that get paid cents on the dollar compared to what I make at some professional editing companies abroad. However, this doesn't have anything to do with the topic at hand. My son's wages are a basis for comparison for wages in the US. 

 

Also, I just worked 6 unbilled hours for a Korean PhD student and recently created a Wix site for free for a Haitian doctor wanting to educate Haitian refugees in the DR about Covid vaccinations, so please stop with whatever it is that you're implying with this unhelpful and unproductive tangent. I understand the plights of those in less privileged countries. Here, on this thread, I am responding to the topic of the influx of freelancers and competitiveness. It's not unreasonable for me to charge more than the US minimum wage as an experienced scientific editor with advanced degrees. 

 

Anyone that wants a native English speaking expert at writing and revising scientific manuscripts has to be willing to pay higher rates or risk receiving lower quality work. 

re: "$20-40/hr to write and/or edit a scientific manuscript? My 14-year-old son makes $20/hr mowing lawns and moving gravel."

 

A lot of people would rather work in science if they can possibly afford to do so, rather than mow lawns and move gravel. The pay rate is not what motivates them.

 

It takes genuine ability, aptitude and interest to succeed in a science career. If you don't have those things you are going to leave and do something easier or more enjoyable for you, or if you will stay, you will never be anything but mediocre.

 

With each passing year, the work that people do on Upwork specifically and in other realms generally is becoming more and more about a person's interest and lifestyle choices, and less about economic necessity.


Preston H wrote:

It takes genuine ability, aptitude and interest to succeed in a science career. If you don't have those things you are going to leave and do something easier or more enjoyable for you, or if you will stay, you will never be anything but mediocre.

 


For the life of me I cannot understand what the purpose of this statement is in the context of Jennifer's comment. It is unclear what it has to do with anything. 

re: "For the life of me I cannot understand what the purpose of this statement is in the context of Jennifer's comment. It is unclear what it has to do with anything."


This post was in reaction to Jennifer saying that her 14-year-old son can earn a certain amount of money mowing lawns, and comparing that to how much money shey can earn editing scientific manuscripts.

 

I don't doubt that what she said is factually accurate. But it is irrelevant. The reasons that people work in science are are different than the reasons that people mow lawns. Somebody may indeed love mowing lawns. Somebody may legitimately make a career out of doing that and other types of landscape work. But there is no way around the fact that more skill and knowledge are required to work in science and do something like editing scientific manuscripts than is required to mow lawn.

 

These things can not be directly compared to each other.

Why on Earth would I lie about my son's hourly rate? That's ridiculous. Of course it's relevant. I'm talking about the comparative value of each service and the skill, background, and education that goes into each. Is my son great at it? Absolutely! Few grown men can wield a chainsaw as well as he can. Is that valuable? Of course it is!

 

However, is it unreasonable for me to want to be paid higher hourly rates as a scientist with advanced degrees, nearly 770 manuscripts under my belt, and editing experience with the top scientific journal editing service in the world? Absolutely not. 

 

Seriously. I though these platforms were a place to have actual discussions with other freelance talent, but now I see that it is no different than any other forum-based platform. Some people apparently have nothing better to do than to troll the Upwork forums to post inane responses. 

 

I was about to post to the forum thanking Upwork for the Freelance Networking feature, but I think I'll pass, lest someone with nothing better to do finds a reason to respond with negativity. 

I think the writing is on the wall for many experienced editors (and translators) on this sort of job platform. Picking and choosing is no longer an option (at least not for me). I rarely see a job in my categories, that offer what I charge hourly or per word, which was not the case a couple of years ago.  I have been fortunate enough to have outside clients, but as always, in freelancing one has to keep hustling.  It's a precarious business. 

Latest Articles
Learning Paths