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Re: will minimum wage hikes benefit Upwork & contractors?

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
1 of 16

I do NOT want to start a political or ideological discussion. If others comment from those perspectives, so be it.

 

But I have been thinking about countries and cities and states that pass minimum wage laws, and I can't see any way that such moves would not benefit Upwork generally and Upwork contractors specifically.

 

For example, Los Angeles recently passed a measure that will increase the minimum wage in that city to $15.00 over a number of years.

 

If you're a small business (or even a large one) that can't afford to pay those wages (or simply doesn't want to), and you can get the same work done on Upwork for less, done by people in other cities, other countries, or even in your own city as business-to-business transactions, then it seems many people would look to outsource parts of their operation that can be done by contractors rather than by local employees.

 

Obviously this kind of thing happens all the time, which is why we're all here. It seems to me that each law passed requiring businesses to pay certain minimum amounts to local employees only increases the likelihood that at least SOME duties will go to online contractors.

 

As for tasks that can not be performed online... like making hamburgers... The beneficiaries of these minimum wage laws must surely be robot manufacturers, robot designers, robot programmers, kiosk designers, etc.

Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
2 of 16

lol California.

 

$15 min hourly rate. Wow. If you need minimum rate changes after 20 years old though, you probably should re-evaluate your life.

Community Guru
Tony H Member Since: Nov 10, 2011
3 of 16

Preston, I agree about outsourcing.

 

Jennifer, I think there is more to it than that

 

 

Here's my added political thought that Preston knew was inevitable from at least one or two loudmouths like me Smiley Happy

 

Education or experience that open doors to higher paying jobs does not mean that those on top who control those jobs will be more willing to share their slice of the pie though. If everyone had a university degree and was worth more than minimum wage, it doesn't mean those jobs will become available for all. There will always be a percentage of people who have to work in the trenches for minimum wage, regardless of ability.

 

In the case of McDonald's, they have already started creating self-serve order stations. They have simply got rid of cashiers in some locations... or at least a good percentage of them.

 

Walmart is shutting down entire stores.

 

Taxi drivers with master's degrees will always be, because someone needs to drive the thing until they automate that too. There are only so many engineers required to design a cab. People can reevaluate their lives until they are blue in the face, but it won't do any good. For every person that climbs the ladder, one person gets knocked down.

 

I'm all for minimum wage, but I don't think it's the solution. People at the top will just figure out ways to automate those jobs or shut down business if the annual ROI falls below investor expectations.

 

Those cut out of the loop will be SOL. Retraining them for higher paid positions will cap out at some point. There simply isn't enough higher paid jobs to go around, regardless of a person's skills or abilities. Unless the greedy people are willing to share, I beleive a minimum wage hike will only create more poor (like... actually poor), and all the trouble that comes from desperate people willing to do desperate things to feel important in society - or even just to survive.

 

I also agree that it will just contribute to more outsourcing, creating even more of those poor willing to do anything.

 

Personally I feel it's actually a really good thing for  global society, but this new idea of sharing our wealth with the world is sure going to tick off a lot of people accustomed to living in luxury here in the 'developed' world Smiley Happy

 

People don't like to share. Those in control of our countries don't like to share.

 

What will happen to society when this growing pool of newly useless people hits a point that the ones on top get tired of them?

 

Disclaimer: I don't personally think people at the bottom of the social ladder are 'useless', I'm just writing this in the view of a corpoate greed monger who could care less about you or I, or society beyond how it benefits them.

 

Minimum wage is a seemingly good idea on teh surface, but is won't solve the problem because greed will find a way around it and leave a path of irreversable destruction in it's wake.

 

Community Guru
Mariska P Member Since: Apr 27, 2015
4 of 16

Good thing your chef at your fave five star restaurant doesn't have to worry huh? Smiley Wink

 

You make a good point and I'm sure that freelancers will benefit somewhat as long as the business don't take advantage and try to hire people for $3 an hr. 

 

Maybe this place could benefit and raise the minimum rate to around $10 to start Smiley Happy

Community Guru
Corinne L Member Since: Jun 3, 2013
5 of 16

"If you need minimum rate changes after 20 years old though, you probably should re-evaluate your life."

 

I don't understand. Why should they re-eveluate their lives?

Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
6 of 16

@Corinne L wrote:

"If you need minimum rate changes after 20 years old though, you probably should re-evaluate your life."

 

I don't understand. Why should they re-eveluate their lives?


 

You get until 22 to live in your mom's basement without being a loser. 25 if you went to college. After that, you're basically a loser. These losers turn into 30+ people living with their mom and complaining that they have to spend child support on the trap baby and QQ about life while they sit in their mom's basement playing video games and being "IMers" to pay for their beer and cigarrettes. The mom makes excuses for their waste of space kid, and really they are 50% of the problem and should feel terrible about themselves.

 

These are the rules of life. Anyone over the age of 25 who mooches off of someone usually complains about stupid things because they have no idea how hard people in other places really have it. You'll often find these waste of genetic material complaining that mom makes them do chores or she wants them to get a job. They usually go on to complain that people don't understand them, and they are really smarter then everyone but really, they are a leech on oxygen and of no value.

 

The only pass you get is after the age of 60 when really you're just sitting around waiting to die. 

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Community Guru
Alexandra H Member Since: Jul 30, 2015
7 of 16

Will minimum wage hikes benefit Upwork & contractors? -- Only in the short term, I'd say. Because what all these reports usually fail to mention is that wages tend to go up after prices, and any additional income will be eaten up by costs in no time. A bit like the "cold progression" we have here in out tax system: you move up into the next-higher income class and your extra income (and more) gets eaten up by the higher taxes. 

 

But you wanted a "non-political" discussion, sorry. (Is there such a thing?) Do I understand you correctly: are you saying that we here on U will become the cheaper alternative for many businesses? Well,... Do you shop at Macy's or Walmart's? I'd like to think that Upwork can become a on-stop-shop for all types of project and a variety of price-levels. So, yeah, we might benefit.

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
8 of 16

re: "You get until 22 to live in your mom's basement without being a loser. 25 if you went to college. [etc.]"

 

I'm fairly certain that pretty much everything Jennifer says would qualify in some circles as "things you're not supposed to say."

 

Jennifer tells the truth, of course, but she may have missed out on modern society's many cultural cues regarding truths that we're not supposed to speak about.

Community Guru
Corinne L Member Since: Jun 3, 2013
9 of 16

I'm fairly certain that pretty much everything Jennifer says would qualify in some circles as "things you're not supposed to say."

 

Well, it's not that you're not supposed to say it, it's just that it doesn't make sense to everybody (I for one don't know anybody who's ever lived in their mum's basement) and that it doesn't reflect the reality of life everywhere in the world : most people earning the minimum wage here don't spend their time playing video games. They're cleaners, old people helpers, etc and they're people of worth.

 

Well, now of course, everybody has their own values, and if it makes people feel good to think other people's life is less worthy or less interesting than theirs, then good for them!

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
10 of 16

re: "to think other people's life is less worthy or less interesting than theirs, then good for them"

 

I think that is a misinterpretation of the intent behind her colorfully-worded post. Stating generally that somebody is a "loser" for not moving onto adulthood once they reach the age of adulthood is not saying that somebody's life is less worthy. It is a way of offering clear advice.

 

I can't speak for Jennifer or anybody else, but allow my to crystalize a basic concept:

 

A minimum wage may have its place, but that place may be as an entry level wage or a wage earned by high school students, retired persons, hobbyists, etc. It is not necessarily intended to be a living wage earned by the primary breadwinner for a family.

 

The truth is, only a small fraction of people in the United States earn the minimum wage, because most people in the workforce have applied themselves in a way that makes their work more valuable than any minimum wage established by fiat (by force) by any government. There is a certain level of responsibility that most adults exercise in order to earn more than a government-specified mininmum. People whose attitudes and aptitude with regards to the workplace place them on its bottom rungs are, by definition, not the the "winners" in this particular economic sphere, regardless of their merit in other aspects of their life.

 

I think this is an economically and mathematically accurate statement, but Jennifer's wording is probably easier to understand.

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