Check out this week's Career CloseUp interview with Anmol, Co-Founder of Valere Labs and CEO of Valere Labs India and get a closeUp look at how he turned freelancing on Elance and oDesk into a dream IT career.
Transcript
00;00;00;04 - 00;00;02;29 Anmol is my name. I’ve been in
00;00;03;05 - 00;00;05;01 the IT space since 2014.
00;00;05;02 - 00;00;07;11 I have done my Engineering in 2012 from
00;00;07;11 - 00;00;08;07 an Indian University,
00;00;08;07 - 00;00;10;08 that is RGPV.
00;00;10;20 - 00;00;14;26 Then I started working as an Oracle DBA in a firm which is in Delhi.
00;00;15;20 - 00;00;18;01 Then I moved to sales in Indore.
00;00;18;01 - 00;00;21;00 So Indore is a city in central India.
00;00;21;00 - 00;00;22;29 The state is Madhya Pradesh.
00;00;22;29 - 00;00;24;18 So I am living here right now.
00;00;24;18 - 00;00;26;26 I started working for a very small startup.
00;00;26;26 - 00;00;28;02 And at the time
00;00;28;02 - 00;00;30;23 I put myself into the sales position where
00;00;31;06 - 00;00;34;20 I was trying to get them some leads, some business.
00;00;34;20 - 00;00;37;28 That’s how I got introduced to Elance
00;00;37;28 - 00;00;39;05 and oDesk.
00;00;39;05 - 00;00;42;11 Upwork was not there that time, so I am a user of Elance and oDesk.
00;00;42;25 - 00;00;47;26 After that, a small startup, I moved to bigger agencies
00;00;48;01 - 00;00;52;22 for which I worked as a full time employee and some time as a freelance resident.
00;00;52;25 - 00;00;56;28 And in 2019, Guy and I met on LinkedIn
00;00;56;28 - 00;01;00;21 and actually I was trying to get Guy as my lead,
00;01;00;21 - 00;01;05;11 but then he had some other idea and actually our ideas were quite similar.
00;01;05;11 - 00;01;09;09 He wanted to open an agency and I was in the same position at that moment.
00;01;09;11 - 00;01;12;16 So I think that’s how Valere started during COVID.
00;01;13;05 - 00;01;14;26 So, that’s a little bit about me.
00;01;15;01 - 00;01;18;04 So, see earlier you also noted
00;01;18;04 - 00;01;21;26 that before Elance and oDesk, finding leads were quite difficult, right?
00;01;22;09 - 00;01;26;17 We were using Craigslist, we were using LinkedIn, we were even using Facebook.
00;01;26;17 - 00;01;29;20 We were using all kinds of stuff which we can to get the leads, right?
00;01;30;14 - 00;01;33;13 But then Elance was introduced, then oDesk was introduced.
00;01;33;26 - 00;01;36;04 So I just used to put in my bids.
00;01;36;08 - 00;01;38;00 I was a very rookie at the time.
00;01;38;00 - 00;01;40;29 And then some day I just got a lead from somewhere
00;01;41;21 - 00;01;44;16 and I just showed that lead to one of my
00;01;45;01 - 00;01;47;18 friend, or colleague who was working in an IT company,
00;01;47;18 - 00;01;51;16 and he said that that's a project, that's what you call a project in IT
00;01;51;16 - 00;01;53;17 and for that you will need coders.
00;01;53;19 - 00;01;55;10 So that's how I
00;01;55;10 - 00;01;58;24 went into this thing, like, okay, from Elance I can earn some money.
00;01;58;24 - 00;02;02;10 I was not having an idea of what I was doing at the time, but eventually
00;02;02;10 - 00;02;05;27 I started learning. Okay, this is the platform from which where
00;02;05;29 - 00;02;09;19 you can get good leads, good projects, and from which you can earn money as well.
00;02;09;19 - 00;02;11;16 So, that's how it started.
00;02;11;16 - 00;02;14;05 I have always been fond of computers and gaming.
00;02;14;28 - 00;02;19;04 So when I was like in my 4th at Standard, I used to play
00;02;20;03 - 00;02;21;28 car racing games, bike racing games.
00;02;21;28 - 00;02;24;02 I used to code at the time, I was using FOXPRO
00;02;24;16 - 00;02;26;16 So FOXPRO is also like a legacy.
00;02;26;16 - 00;02;30;24 I used to work on FOXPRO, then COBOL, then C++
00;02;31;06 - 00;02;34;07 and then all this Node.js, BHP came into the picture, right?
00;02;34;07 - 00;02;35;25 Again, all old school.
00;02;35;25 - 00;02;39;18 So I wanted to be around computers,
00;02;39;19 - 00;02;42;24 I will not call it in IT, but yeah, I loved computers.
00;02;42;24 - 00;02;45;12 I wanted to be around computers, around CPUs.
00;02;45;24 - 00;02;48;23 I liked how they use to operate.
00;02;48;23 - 00;02;51;16 I like the machines, the CRT monitors at that time.
00;02;52;02 - 00;02;56;02 So yeah, I mean, in my mind somewhere, there was always
00;02;56;03 - 00;02;59;28 an idea of being in this industry only like forever.
00;02;59;28 - 00;03;01;26 So yeah, you can say that.
00;03;02;00 - 00;03;03;01 Day to day, it's mostly meetings.
00;03;03;01 - 00;03;06;01 Earlier it was completely different, but since
00;03;07;04 - 00;03;07;20 Valere has started,
00;03;07;20 - 00;03;13;01 the day’s mostly about meetings, meeting with the internal team,
00;03;13;10 - 00;03;16;16 the developers, the designers in the morning time.
00;03;16;25 - 00;03;20;03 And then in the night time, meeting with clients, with my colleagues
00;03;20;03 - 00;03;21;16 who are in the U.S.A.
00;03;21;16 - 00;03;24;16 So weekdays are mostly for the meetings and then
00;03;25;19 - 00;03;29;21 always get some time to spend some time with family so around one or two are for that.
00;03;30;01 - 00;03;32;22 But it's 24/7 hours, weekends, and meetings
00;03;32;29 - 00;03;34;14 and then I sleep.
00;03;34;16 - 00;03;36;04 So, give yourself some time.
00;03;36;06 - 00;03;38;04 You will have to take risks eventually.
00;03;38;04 - 00;03;39;15 Bigger risks, okay?
00;03;39;15 - 00;03;42;06 So make yourself prepared for that and
00;03;42;06 - 00;03;44;28 take the ownership of the risk you are going to take in your life.
00;03;45;23 - 00;03;48;19 If you are not going to take ownership, then it's useless,
00;03;48;25 - 00;03;49;12 don't take it.
00;03;50;28 - 00;03;54;26 I always think I am like around two years late into opening a company.
00;03;55;07 - 00;03;59;26 So maybe if there was someone who would have told me like I should go on this path,
00;04;00;20 - 00;04;03;26 Valere would have been open in the 2017 instead of 2019.
00;04;04;07 - 00;04;06;15 I used to see how people were getting projects
00;04;06;28 - 00;04;09;03 and I used to see how they were doing freelancing.
00;04;09;03 - 00;04;11;21 So, I wouldn't call them mentors, but yeah,
00;04;11;21 - 00;04;15;29 I kept on looking at what they were doing. And always there
00;04;16;01 - 00;04;18;20 is so many things on social media,
00;04;19;06 - 00;04;22;06 there are so many video streaming platforms, on which you can search
00;04;22;07 - 00;04;25;06 what you are looking for and it gives you the idea.
00;04;25;06 - 00;04;29;04 So I think the Internet can be mine, I can call the Internet as my mentor
00;04;29;04 - 00;04;32;06 at the time. Because I learned writing proposals.
00;04;32;06 - 00;04;35;24 I learned how to talk to clients, I learned how to convert them.
00;04;36;05 - 00;04;38;08 It's all by the Internet, I will say.
00;04;38;08 - 00;04;41;24 And some of the TV is good, good web series,
00;04;42;27 - 00;04;45;21 more like taught me, okay, this is how you do business.
00;04;45;21 - 00;04;48;26 People ask me about how to get projects on Upwork.
00;04;49;07 - 00;04;53;01 And to them, I tell them that if you want to get a project on Upwork,
00;04;53;12 - 00;04;55;10 you need to work for 14 days.
00;04;55;14 - 00;04;59;01 Like hard work for 14 days. Because this has been my experience
00;04;59;01 - 00;05;00;02 with Upwork, I have
00;05;00;02 - 00;05;03;10 taught so many people on how to create their profiles.
00;05;03;10 - 00;05;05;07 The profile makes a huge difference.
00;05;05;17 - 00;05;07;10 Then the portfolio section, okay?
00;05;07;10 - 00;05;09;10 And then you need to bid blindly
00;05;09;12 - 00;05;12;20 for around 14 days. And I think on 15 days
00;05;12;20 - 00;05;17;01 you can land a project on Upwork. It can be small project but yeah, it starts
00;05;17;01 - 00;05;19;14 getting there, you start getting into that zone from
00;05;19;26 - 00;05;21;02 where you will get the projects.
00;05;21;02 - 00;05;22;19 When I was in a bigger organization
00;05;23;02 - 00;05;26;11 I used to handle a team of around eight or nine people
00;05;27;01 - 00;05;31;07 and we were handling profiles, we were handling 63 Upwork profiles at that time.
00;05;31;07 - 00;05;34;13 I was getting all kinds of just like, okay, this is how you can get the projects.
00;05;34;13 - 00;05;36;20 So we used to create profiles on Python.
00;05;36;21 - 00;05;39;13 Then we were having all sorts of developers.
00;05;40;01 - 00;05;43;14 So we were creating their profiles and then they were going on verification mode.
00;05;43;26 - 00;05;47;14 Then they were given the test, the Upwork test, which were there.
00;05;48;02 - 00;05;51;14 So all these things happened during those 14 days tenure.
00;05;51;14 - 00;05;55;12 So, I always keep on telling people that if you want to land a project on Upwork,
00;05;55;20 - 00;05;58;10 for 14 days you will have to work very hard.
00;05;59;06 - 00;06;00;22 Don't think about anything else
00;06;00;22 - 00;06;04;23 but Upwork for those 14 days and then you can land a project on there for sure.
00;06;06;01 - 00;06;09;02 So when we started Valere, see everyone has an expectation, right?
00;06;09;02 - 00;06;12;20 We can tell on the face that there is zero expectation
00;06;12;20 - 00;06;14;29 but even in relationships, people have expectations.
00;06;15;17 - 00;06;18;02 Although they will keep on saying, we don't have any expectations.
00;06;18;10 - 00;06;22;21 With Valere, I have so much of expectations
00;06;22;21 - 00;06;27;14 in terms of growth, business, in terms of being biggest in the numbers.
00;06;27;14 - 00;06;31;05 So there is no limit to the expectation which we have from Valere.
00;06;31;05 - 00;06;34;11 And that is the reason that we work really hard.
00;06;35;07 - 00;06;36;13 You can see it’s 1 a.m. right?
00;06;36;13 - 00;06;38;24 So, I’m telling you I'll be up until 4 a.m.
00;06;38;24 - 00;06;42;12 So, I think there is so much expectation, which is why I'm still up.
00;06;42;23 - 00;06;44;01 Otherwise I would have slept.
00;06;44;09 - 00;06;46;25 See, if you are getting discouraged,
00;06;47;00 - 00;06;49;03 I always prefer taking breaks from them.
00;06;49;24 - 00;06;52;19 Even with what we are doing right now,
00;06;52;29 - 00;06;58;03 there are times where the situation gets very stressful.
00;06;58;18 - 00;07;00;05 You get demotivated.
00;07;00;05 - 00;07;02;24 Basically, it's human behavior, okay?
00;07;02;24 - 00;07;06;02 You cannot be God or someone who cannot be discouraged anymore.
00;07;06;02 - 00;07;09;19 So, even though you may become an even bigger person in life,
00;07;09;20 - 00;07;12;13 you will always get discouraged because of the expectation.
00;07;12;21 - 00;07;15;10 Expectation discourages you all the time
00;07;15;27 - 00;07;18;18 so it's better to take a break of seven days,
00;07;18;18 - 00;07;22;04 go outside, don't use your phones, don't talk to anyone.
00;07;22;04 - 00;07;23;12 Talk to yourself.
00;07;23;12 - 00;07;25;21 I think that helps, always. And I have done that,
00;07;25;21 - 00;07;27;12 it always helps.
00;07;27;14 - 00;07;29;09 I think you never stop,
00;07;29;09 - 00;07;31;11 It's always a pause in the big game.
00;07;31;11 - 00;07;32;23 And there is one more thing that
00;07;32;23 - 00;07;36;13 I keep on telling my friends as well, that if you are on a trip,
00;07;36;14 - 00;07;37;16 you never end your trip,
00;07;37;16 - 00;07;40;11 you always pause a trip and then it resumes after two or three months.
00;07;40;11 - 00;07;42;29 So, if you're stopping, that means you are dead.
00;07;42;29 - 00;07;46;04 So never to stop. Just pause. Take a pause.
00;07;46;18 - 00;07;49;03 I have been listening to this quote forever:
00;07;49;03 - 00;07;50;24 “It’s not over until I win.”
00;07;50;24 - 00;07;52;25 So I just keep following it.
00;07;52;25 - 00;07;56;14 We are on the verge of growing as fast as we can.
00;07;56;23 - 00;08;00;19 We are trying to be around a 200 plus team by next year
00;08;00;19 - 00;08;01;19 in India.
00;08;02;13 - 00;08;05;00 We are moving into AI as fast as possible.
00;08;05;22 - 00;08;07;24 We have good AI developers now
00;08;07;24 - 00;08;09;27 and we are finding more AI developers because
00;08;09;27 - 00;08;13;16 we think that market is trending towards that space
00;08;13;16 - 00;08;15;17 now and the future is
00;08;16;06 - 00;08;17;23 all about AI only.
00;08;17;23 - 00;08;20;21 Other things will be in place but AI will play a major role.
00;08;20;21 - 00;08;23;22 So, we are putting our foot in that space
00;08;23;22 - 00;08;26;26 now and for that we are trying as much as we can.
00;08;26;26 - 00;08;32;06 We are having training sessions in our office almost weekly.
00;08;32;24 - 00;08;36;13 We are also inviting some of the people who are already in the AI space.
00;08;36;26 - 00;08;39;21 So we are doing that almost on a weekly basis now
00;08;39;21 - 00;08;44;07 so that our developers learn where this world is going.
00;08;44;21 - 00;08;47;16 So yeah, this is all we have been doing right now,
00;08;47;16 - 00;08;51;15 and I think this is the plan for the coming six months, that we want to be
00;08;51;19 - 00;08;54;02 into AI. Almost 50% of the developers into AI.
00;08;54;27 - 00;08;55;18 It always
00;08;55;18 - 00;08;59;27 takes time to reach at some level, okay? Those who are already experienced,
00;08;59;28 - 00;09;03;13 it becomes easier for them to be inside that zone.
00;09;03;13 - 00;09;06;17 But those whom are just starting their career in IT,
00;09;07;07 - 00;09;11;20 they'll have to take the steps slowly and eventually they'll learn in the AI space.
00;09;11;20 - 00;09;15;06 But yeah, they should have a goal of AI, instead of just being a developer.
00;09;15;15 - 00;09;17;26 I think that’s how they can make it to AI.
00;09;18;10 - 00;09;21;16 For seniors, it's not rocket science because it's already in the market.
00;09;21;16 - 00;09;24;05 That means humans are making it, so anyone can make it.
00;09;24;05 - 00;09;26;22 So, it's just a matter of time.
00;09;26;22 - 00;09;28;18 There are so many. Again, Internet is the mentor.
00;09;28;18 - 00;09;32;16 So keep learning from the internet and you will get where you want to.
00;09;32;24 - 00;09;35;11 I don't want to keep working as I'm doing right now.
00;09;36;21 - 00;09;40;22 So maybe in ten years I'll be sitting at some remote place,
00;09;41;01 - 00;09;43;14 looking at the cameras, who is working and who is not.
00;09;43;19 - 00;09;45;20 So that's how I see myself in ten years.
00;09;45;20 - 00;09;49;27 Because again, if for ten years, if we’ll keep on working like this,
00;09;49;27 - 00;09;53;02 I think we’ll be be at a very high goal.
00;09;53;02 - 00;09;55;20 So everything will look good from there.
00;09;55;20 - 00;09;56;05 I'm positive we’ll be there.
00;09;56;05 - 00;09;57;24 I'm positive we’ll be there.
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