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naturehouse
Community Member

Client Not Communicating

I have a client that I have been working on a logo with for a while- he has been responsive, friendly- happy overall. After our last revisions, he was going to show his team in December and then he stopped responding. I forgot to have him put in his last milestone payment. He finally said he would and did last week. But he hasn't said when he will return with feedback or final resolution with the project. I find this incredably rude and frustrating to drag on a project with no communication. It has been 1 month 1/2 with no info. I am looking for any advice from other designers that have been in this situation. How did you move the project forward or towards finality?

15 REPLIES 15
gilbert-phyllis
Community Member

How it is supposed to work:

- client funds milestone

- FL performs associated work and submits to client using the 'submit work' button (or whatever it's called, I haven't worked a fixed-rate contract in a while)

- client has 14 days to review, request revisions, and/or approve payment

- at end of 14 days, if client has not asked for revisions, payment is automatic

 

It sounds like you didn't submit the work through teh system, or you would've been paid by now. 

 

BTW, yes, it is rude for the client to ghost you like that. But it happens, and sometimes there is a good reason--the client's life became overly complicated for reasons that have nothing to do with you or your project. That is why you need to always submit the work through the proper mechanism, so you get paid without unnecessary angst.

 

Good luck!

Hi Phyllis,

 

Thanks so much for weighing in! Actually this is less about payment and more about ghosting and any tips how to motivate that client to come back and continue/or wrap it up. I understand people have stuff going on, I just always had the courtesy to send a quick note to let my client know if there is a delay with a rough time frame. 

 

Thanks!!

Actually also rethinking what you said about payment. We are down to the last milestone where we are supposed to be complete. We are probably not since his note is to discuss. Am I in the right to request that final milestone released since it has been a month 1/2 or do I have to sit here and wait for him to come around?

If you've completed the work the milestone was supposed to cover, request the payment. If you've completed only part of it, request partial payment. I wouldn't wait around any longer given that the client has been unresponsive for so long.

IMO you are not obligated to wait indefinitely. I would request payment. Is the client UW-savvy so he'll realize there is a 14day clock on revisions, or is there some likelihood he'll keep snoozing for another month and then want revisions (after contract has been closed)? I would assume you were prepared to revise, so in your shoes I would think that through and decide ahead of time what i'm prepared to do later, to send him away happy--without letting it drag on until Easter. Just in case he pops up next month.

re: "and any tips how to motivate that client to come back and continue/or wrap it up."

 

I understand your concerns, but you really should re-think fixed-price contracts. So that what you are talking about is irrelevent.

 

For me, "motivating clients to come back and continue" is completely irrelevent.

 

Because if I accept a FIXED-PRICE CONTRACT, then it means I can do the work and submit it without further interaction with the client. If that's not possible, then it is an hourly contract.

 

So if I accept a fixed-price contract, I do the work, and I submit it. And the client can release payment, or DO NOTHING. Either way, I get paid for the work.

 

So it's similar to hourly contracts: If you do the work, you record the time, and you get paid. Automatically.

 

It doesn't make sense to me for any freelancer to agree to do work for a complete stranger in a way that means they won't get paid if the client doesn't return to interact with them. Not when Upwork has two different methods for GETTING PAID AUTOMATICALLY.

"It doesn't make sense to me for any freelancer to agree to do work for a complete stranger in a way that means they won't get paid if the client doesn't return to interact with them. Not when Upwork has two different methods for GETTING PAID AUTOMATICALLY."

 

Responding not to argue with Preston, whose UW strategy clearly works well for him and is likely a valuable model for up-and-comers in his field, but for UW newbies in other fields who may be listening in.

 

Some types of work are highly collaborative and success can be largely (or wholly) subjective, and in some cases there are established conventions for fixed-price fees as opposed to hourly compensation. (This thread is for Designers and Creatives, after all.) Then, it is reasonable--and often inescapable--to be in a situation where the ultimate success of the project depends in part on the client remaining engaged until the end.

Using UW's fixed-price process as it's meant to be used affords the FL some protection against vanishing clients (who may be flaky or may have been kidnaped or broken both hands or may simply be contending with shifting conditions at their end that they cannot control--no excuse for not communicating, but whatever). I try to give people the benefit of the doubt until they indicate they don't deserve it. Anywho, the system is not entirely fool-proof. 

 

OP's question about how to keep clients engaged to the end is one of the challenges of freelancing. There's no silver bullet that I know of, but there are things we can do that can help. Pay attention to your spidey sense before accepting the contract. Be very, very specific in the contract terms re. how many rounds of revision are included and available contingencies if more is needed, e.g. hourly contract for additional revisions. Be specific about your expectations when submitting work, e.g. "When do you expect to have x ready for me to begin the next milestone? I want to be sure time is allocated on my calendar to complete the next phase with no delay" or something like that.

 

Sometimes, despite our best efforts, a project stalls out. If we've submitted the work properly, then we get paid regardless of what the client does. And it becomes a matter of deciding ahead of time how you want to handle it if they pop back up wanting more. Do you like them and want to keep working with them? Would you just as soon be done with them? Regardless, you want them leaving happy because (1) it's consistent with your own professional ethics, and (2) no reason to court less-than-excellent feedback when you've done you usual excellent job.

 

No silver bullets and no guarantees. Just bring to bear all of your experience, listen to your intuition, and always be willing to learn from what just happened.

Thanks for your extensive thoughts on this Phyllis...much appreciated!

silw
Community Member

usually when working on fixed price contracts you should include a deposit of 25%-50%.

that is absolutely common, and if a client refuses to do so he 

a) is a scammer

b) isn't doing business regularly

c) thinks you are a scammer

All are cases you shouldn't be working with given person.

 

A second important habit you should include to your workflow is setting very clear general conditions.

which milestone is finished at date x/y/z, which round of review is due at date x/y/z, what happens if you miss the deadline, what happens if the client misses the deadline.

If the conditions are clear you won't run into a situation where you "worked ahead" of what you are paid for, or only very little.

 

The only reason a client might not want to agree to clear conditions is because he wants to take advantage of you, which again, is a reason not to even start working with someone.

 

 

mtngigi
Community Member


Jennifer P wrote:

I have a client that I have been working on a logo with for a while- he has been responsive, friendly- happy overall. After our last revisions, he was going to show his team in December and then he stopped responding. I forgot to have him put in his last milestone payment. He finally said he would and did last week. But he hasn't said when he will return with feedback or final resolution with the project. I find this incredably rude and frustrating to drag on a project with no communication. It has been 1 month 1/2 with no info. I am looking for any advice from other designers that have been in this situation. How did you move the project forward or towards finality?


Design work requires a different workflow than the kinds of things that Preston (and others) mention. For the most part, all design work, and especially logos, require a fair amount of back and forth with a client, so it just doesn't work in the same way as other categories might.

 

I usually only do one milestone, and require that it be fully-funded before I start work. Even if i set up more than one milestone, that first milestone has to be fully-funded. The client can then release part of the money, and the balance moves to the next milestone.

 

Clients drag their feet sometimes ... Dec./Jan. holidays usually set things back. It's part of freelancing that's a PITA, but not much you can do about it. I would craft a professional message asking the client where things are with feedback, and letting them know you would like to wrap this up by month's end or sooner if possible. If there is no response, I would finalize the last file and upload to the contract page and and hit the "get paid" button. At that point, they'll have 14 days to respond ... hopefully that will get them to get a move on.

aurea28
Community Member

I also have the same problem with my client, which the project started last December. While giving the instructions, the client is nice and communicative. After he gave all the instructions I never heard anything from him anymore yet  I was able to submit the design but my mistake was I didn't turned on the manual time tracker while I was doing the design. After submitting the design and asking for his thoughts about it, he didn't sent any reply, so thought of waiting. after a month I followed up again, he replied but seems he's not aware that we have currently working on a design. and again no response.

 

Until now we haven't ended the contract which I'm thinking of ending it, but afraid that it might give a back reflection to my profile. 

Btw this was my 1st job until now.

Ma Aurea:

What you described is a situation in which you made a mistake by not logging time properly.

 

The client did not violate any Upwork rules. Clients are NOT obligated to respond to freelancers.

 

When we use Upwork properly, we log our time and we get paid automatically. Whether a client responds or does anything at all has nothing to do with whether or not we get paid.

 

You said the client gave you all the instructions, and that you were able to do the work.

If that is the case, and if the client is not giving you any further instructions, you should not feel any urgency about this contract.

 

If it was me, personally, I would send him one more message:

"Henry:

Thank you again for the opportunity to work on this project. At this point the work you asked me to do is done and I don't see any remaining requests or questions. If there is anything else you need, please let me know. Otherwise, you could close the contract and that will help avoid any confusion about whether or not any other work is needed, and that will prevent any additional billing on the contract."

Yes I admit that it was my fault by not logging the time properly,

 

"Clients are NOT obligated to respond to freelancers." I make sure I'll keep this in mind.

 

My concern was I wanted for the contract to end, which I was confuse if I will be the one who should end it. But since you have shared your thoughts on how you will handle the situation, I will apply this to my client. 

 

Thanks!

Rea

vhalthor
Community Member

if a client responds or not is up to them, and nothing to do about it, sad, happened to me ALOT of times, what i do in those cases is to just close the contract myself you want to do it because if the contract is innactive for too much time it will start lowering your succes % as far as i know.

aside,

you can avoid writting a review if you dont want their possible review to appear on your profile

aurea28
Community Member

Sorry to hear that Victor, I was also wondering maybe that's one reason I'm not getting any job. The Job is still in progress. Anyway, I'll end the contract myself. 

 

Thanks for the info.

Rea