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Proposal Discussion Stage - client asking for design ideas as to how I will approach design

Active Member
Michelle M Member Since: May 24, 2017
1 of 15

Hi everyone, 

 

I'm new(ish) to Upwork and have started sending out proposals.

One job is seeing me at the stage of discussing a proposal with a potential client. At first he messaged me and told me that another designer had quoted him half of what i had proposed and listed all the elements that designer would deliver for said price - he asked me to outline what he would get for my price. I outlined what i would deliver.

 

A week later he came back and has now asked me to please send him some design ideas as to how i will approach designing his product packaging. This part of the project is included in the first milestone that i've quoted him. Should I revise the proposal and make this a milestone that he can pay for and then decide if he'd like to continue?

Ace Contributor
Iga F Member Since: Dec 7, 2015
2 of 15

He would have to hire you first to be able to pay the milestone, it doesn't matter if you revise the proposal or not. Tbh. it looks like he is trying to get free work from you.

Active Member
Muhammad R Member Since: Jan 30, 2019
3 of 15

I think the client did not like the designs of the 1st designers this is why he came back to you and asked to show him yours.

As you stated that you can ask him to start the job on an hourly or fixed price whatever you both agreed on and see if it fits him or not and then he can decide whether he wants to continue with you or not.

Active Member
Michelle M Member Since: May 24, 2017
4 of 15

He's come back to me now to ask if i can pull a few images off google to give him an idea of what i think would be a good direction for his product. Starting out on Upwork is challenging!!! you want to get work but also not work for free! Think i might spend 10 mins pulling images to send to him and see where that goes.

 

thanks for advice :-)

Community Guru
Kelly B Member Since: Jan 1, 2016
5 of 15

I send examples of my own work that are relative to a prospective job. I do not send images from google. He should do that himself. I would not do any free work for a client, including what he's asked for.

Community Guru
Virginia F Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
6 of 15

Michelle M wrote:

Hi everyone, 

 

I'm new(ish) to Upwork and have started sending out proposals.

One job is seeing me at the stage of discussing a proposal with a potential client. At first he messaged me and told me that another designer had quoted him half of what i had proposed and listed all the elements that designer would deliver for said price - he asked me to outline what he would get for my price. I outlined what i would deliver.

 

A week later he came back and has now asked me to please send him some design ideas as to how i will approach designing his product packaging. This part of the project is included in the first milestone that i've quoted him. Should I revise the proposal and make this a milestone that he can pay for and then decide if he'd like to continue?


It is against TOS for clients to ask for free work, and his job post should be flagged. You should not do any work unless/until you are hired and have a contract in place. If he wants to see what kind of work you can do, that's what a portfolio is for. If he wants to see something akin to what he is looking for, then tell him you'll be happy to do a small, paid test. Some clients get ideas for free, and then go and find someone to replicate those ideas on the cheap. Please, do not give him anything -freelancers who do this train clients to think it's okay ... it's not.

Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
7 of 15

If a client wants me to find images via google and send them to him, then he can set up an hourly contract for me to do so.

Active Member
Michelle M Member Since: May 24, 2017
8 of 15

Thanks Virginia (and everyone else),

 

Unfortunately only saw your response to my post after I pulled a couple of images for him to give him a steer as to the direction I would take with his project. 

However I do agree with you that it is akin to training clients in bad behaviour! And I won't be doing this again. 

He's subsequently replied to me now, giving me more of a brief (still without a contract) and asking me to send him yet more images of the direction I would take now that I have more info from him. 

I'm beginning to suspect he's mining for free work.  

Having looked at the "activity on this job"  (see attachment) I can see that he's interviewing 6 people, so I am beginning to feel like he's getting me to do the work of image searching his design direction so that he can send to other designers to form part of his brief. I might be wrong but I might not be!

 

I have responded to let him know he now needs to initiate a contract and I won't be able to continue without one. Will see what his response is before reporting this particular job.

Community Guru
Virginia F Member Since: Feb 15, 2016
9 of 15

Michelle M wrote:

Thanks Virginia (and everyone else),

 

Unfortunately only saw your response to my post after I pulled a couple of images for him to give him a steer as to the direction I would take with his project. 

However I do agree with you that it is akin to training clients in bad behaviour! And I won't be doing this again. 

He's subsequently replied to me now, giving me more of a brief (still without a contract) and asking me to send him yet more images of the direction I would take now that I have more info from him. 

I'm beginning to suspect he's mining for free work.  

Having looked at the "activity on this job"  (see attachment) I can see that he's interviewing 6 people, so I am beginning to feel like he's getting me to do the work of image searching his design direction so that he can send to other designers to form part of his brief. I might be wrong but I might not be!

 

I have responded to let him know he now needs to initiate a contract and I won't be able to continue without one. Will see what his response is before reporting this particular job.


And that is how some smarmy clients get their job done for free. He may be looking for images to use on a project - website, newsletter, blog post ... who knows.

 

With all the images you're supplying, plus more from the other freelancers he's "interviewing", he gets a boatload of work done for nothing. In the writing category, there are clients who ask for 20 samples from 20 different freelancers, and voila, all the copy they need is done for free.

 

Please make sure to flag this job asap.

Community Guru
Kelly B Member Since: Jan 1, 2016
10 of 15

Virginia F wrote:

Michelle M wrote:

Thanks Virginia (and everyone else),

 

Unfortunately only saw your response to my post after I pulled a couple of images for him to give him a steer as to the direction I would take with his project. 

However I do agree with you that it is akin to training clients in bad behaviour! And I won't be doing this again. 

He's subsequently replied to me now, giving me more of a brief (still without a contract) and asking me to send him yet more images of the direction I would take now that I have more info from him. 

I'm beginning to suspect he's mining for free work.  

Having looked at the "activity on this job"  (see attachment) I can see that he's interviewing 6 people, so I am beginning to feel like he's getting me to do the work of image searching his design direction so that he can send to other designers to form part of his brief. I might be wrong but I might not be!

 

I have responded to let him know he now needs to initiate a contract and I won't be able to continue without one. Will see what his response is before reporting this particular job.


And that is how some smarmy clients get their job done for free. He may be looking for images to use on a project - website, newsletter, blog post ... who knows.

 

With all the images you're supplying, plus more from the other freelancers he's "interviewing", he gets a boatload of work done for nothing. In the writing category, there are clients who ask for 20 samples from 20 different freelancers, and voila, all the copy they need is done for free.

 

Please make sure to flag this job asap.


I always decline invitations if they're already interviewing several people. Not worth it.