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rolludesig
Community Member

6 connects for Entry level job?

I just came across a job where client is looking for entry level freelancers but cost of posting proposal is 6 connects??

 

what exactly is going on? why 6 connects for entry level job?

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
rafsun_ug
Community Member

Upwork needs lots of money even it doesn't a matter to Upwork, if Freelancers doesn't get jobs or clients never hire anyone. Upwork is getting money whatever the Job was granted to anyone or not! You can see, almost every jobs get more than 50 proposals. That means Upwork earns $45 without anything if there needs a 6 connects...if the job granted to anyone, Upwork earns again 20% commission. It's business brother...it's business! But I strongly believe, what is going on here, is not fair!

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68 REPLIES 68
kfarnell
Community Member

I’m not here to do tests, even if they’re called something else. (Though I’m starting to wonder if people should pass a test before posting on the forum.) And I’m certainly not here to waste time ‘earning’ $5. It would make it MORE EXPENSIVE to bid on projects.


Clients want their projects done and freelancers want to get on with working. It’s hardly a perfect system, but it won’t be improved by forcing people to jump through hoops and do tests and by delaying the completion of projects.


I don't know how long you think people have to be here before having an opinion, but my account was transferred from Elance in 2015. I'd been there since 2005. It’s going to be really quiet here if you only want people who’ve been around for longer posting.


But you’re obviously trolling because no-one could be that obtuse. So that’s me done.


Pavlo L wrote:

If the amount of connects per job is based on the worth and length of the whole project, and clients don't know what it will be - then the project should be closed after running its course by reaching the value indicated in the initial proposal.

 

That is: if a project value has a placeholder worth of $5 written in it, then applying for it should cost 1 connect. And milestones no bigger than 5$ in total (whether 5x 1$ or 1x 5$) should be allowed in it. After reaching $5 the client can choose to resubmit the job proposal for others to apply again.


As a freelancer and a client - I give this suggestion every single nope of every colour that has ever existed and ever will exist. 

Just - nope. Lots and lots of nopes. All of them

Noooooo. 

We need to make everything as easy as possible for clients. They are the ones creating jobs and we want them to create MORE jobs. We do not want to be scaring them away. Upwork should not implement unnecessary procedures that only serve to make things unnecessarily awkward for clients that may well end up just going elsewhere.

 

I think the connects system probably does need revisiting, but this is not the solution. Paying clients should not be penalised, even if the penalty is no more than an inconvenience. 

It could well massively backfire anyway - clients would likely start putting high place-holders to avoid the hassle of having to close contracts and start again. 


Jamie F wrote:

It could well massively backfire anyway


And the system in place is working just dandy, didn't backfire at all?

As a freelancer you should be able to judge this accordingly and may even look elswhere, especially for entry level jobs.

 

As a client who is looking for entry level freelancers you are given less by paying the same, since freelancers are feeling left out and go elswhere.

 

How do you reckon is this fair to any of the parties, both of which you presume to be able to represent? And the question I ask everyone: what would you suggest in order to tackle the issue from the initial message of this thread, and maybe those I have touched upon?

petra_r
Community Member


Pavlo L wrote:

Jamie F wrote:

It could well massively backfire anyway


And the system in place is working just dandy, didn't backfire at all?


In which way did it misfire?

 


Pavlo L wrote:
Petra, as a top rated "solution finder" here on the Upwork forum - what would you suggest to address the issue in the topic, or the ones I propose to tackle by implementing a realistic project length and worth? I would love to hear your input.


Assume that a proposal costs 6 connects and build into in your rates. If you are in the market sector Upwork would rather get rid of (cheap freelancers and the clients that hire them for small / cheap contracts) - look elswhere.


As usual in business: Adapt or Abandon.

 

paywell
Community Member


Petra R wrote:


In which way did it misfire?


Assume that a proposal costs 6 connects and build into in your rates. If you are in the market sector Upwork would rather get rid of (cheap freelancers and the clients that hire them for small / cheap contracts) - look elswhere.


As usual in business: Adapt or Abandon.

 


Ah, so it isn't Upworks position, that connects should represent the length and value of a project. Phyllis has misinterpreted their reply on the lengthy thread about connects, or is simply lying to us then, right?

 

So, if this is just an elaborate way of Upwork saying "sod off", then of course, I choose Adapt.

 

But can I get a quote on this agenda you assume Upwork is taking?

Here's a post from up above in this very thread, about the backfire:

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/6-connects-for-Entry-level-job/m-p/660636/highlight/true...

 

But if people are just being told to go elswhere with their cheapo jobs and bids (and you can provide a link on that being the position of Upwork) - then you're absolutely right, no backfire occured.

 

If not - you didn't offer a solution to any of the problems raised, Solution Finder.



Pavlo L wrote:

Jamie F wrote:

It could well massively backfire anyway


And the system in place is working just dandy, didn't backfire at all?

I didn't say it is dandy, did I? I acknowledged it has its problems, but your recommendation is not the solution. 

As a freelancer you should be able to judge this accordingly and may even look elswhere, especially for entry level jobs.

Fine. Upwork has too many freelancers. As it happens, connects are intended to limit applications. If freelancers leave then that's less competition for me. 

 

As a client who is looking for entry level freelancers you are given less by paying the same, since freelancers are feeling left out and go elswhere.

Again, connect were introduced with the deliberate intention of limiting applications. Clients were being swamped with spam and poor quality applicants.

 

How do you reckon is this fair to any of the parties, both of which you presume to be able to represent?
Who said it has to be  fair? Although if the system eliminates much of the competition than that's all good for me as a freelancer. 

And the question I ask everyone: what would you suggest in order to tackle the issue from the initial message of this thread, and maybe those I have touched upon?
I don't have a suggestion - other than not implementing your suggestions. 




Jamie F wrote:


And the question I ask everyone: what would you suggest in order to tackle the issue from the initial message of this thread, and maybe those I have touched upon?



I suggest that Upwork should just charge a flat 90 cents per proposal instead of relying on clients to determine the project's worth. That would simplify things, don't you think?

 


Jamie F wrote:


I didn't say it is dandy, did I? I acknowledged it has its problems, but your recommendation is not the solution. 

Ah, so the "I have no idea how, but not like you say" approach, I see. Not one that I take particular fancy in, to be completely honest with you - whatever you say after this loses its value to me. For what can a person implement, if he can only naysay without the ability to create his own? Not much, really. But nevertheless, let's finish this one at least:

Fine. Upwork has too many freelancers. As it happens, connects are intended to limit applications. If freelancers leave then that's less competition for me. 

 

Again, connect were introduced with the deliberate intention of limiting applications. Clients were being swamped with spam and poor quality applicants.

 

Who said it has to be  fair? Although if the system eliminates much of the competition than that's all good for me as a freelancer. 

I don't have a suggestion - other than not implementing your suggestions. 


 


My suggestion was built on what Phyllis fished out from the initial discussion on raising the connect cost of a bid. The official position of Upwork is, that the algorythm is built on the project length and worth, to which many clients reply - we don't know the length and worth.

 

Therefore I say - build the algorythm on what is declared by the client. If $5 then let the bidding be worth 1 connect and the project be ended at $5. This may also be a way of attracting bids, or people completing $5 test assignments. And if $500 is declared - then 6 connects are required and a $500 "long" project takes place.

 

Your only argument, apart from "do whatever just not what he says" is that it is an inconvenience for clients. Well I tell you: losing freelancers, who grow from $5 projects into $5000 projects, but start low, from those cheapo jobs - is not good for the client, nor for Upwork.

By the way, this is me taking it as true, that Upwork has an agenda of getting rid of cheap bids and not hearsay. And I would like you to provide me with a link on that matter. Unless it's all made up, in that case you may leave me with no link provided.


Jamie F wrote:

Pavlo L wrote:

(really bad ideas)


As a freelancer and a client - I give this suggestion every single nope of every colour that has ever existed and ever will exist. 

Just - nope. Lots and lots of nopes. All of them

Noooooo. 


Maybe when Pavlo gets a little experience on the platform and thinks it through properly he'll see why it is a very silly set of ideas which would be bad for clients and freelancers in equal measures.

paywell
Community Member


Petra R wrote:


Maybe when Pavlo gets a little experience on the platform and thinks it through properly he'll see why it is a very silly set of ideas which would be bad for clients and freelancers in equal measures.


Petra, as a top rated "solution finder" here on the Upwork forum - what would you suggest to address the issue in the topic, or the ones I propose to tackle by implementing a realistic project length and worth? I would love to hear your input.

The determination of connects are irrational... I have discussed that with Glenn, from Upwork, And I will not repeat here my arguments, but is like trying to determine a price of a product before it has been sold. It´s a communist utopia...  Until you change your policy about connects I will not work anymore in Upwork. 

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Yeah, Rahul, the Upwork algorithm that assigns connect values to new projects might as well be a monkey throwing darts at a board with the numbers 2, 4 and 6 on it.

 

I'd rather see Upwork assign connects required for new projects based on freelancers' work history and average project value, which is probably a better determinant of what the freelancer can expect to be paid on a new project value than anything Upwork can otherwise measure. In my limited experience, many clients obviously have no clue how much they should expect to spend for completion of their projects, so how can Upwork expect to know better?


Will L wrote:

Yeah, Rahul, the Upwork algorithm that assigns connect values to new projects might as well be a monkey throwing darts at a board with the numbers 2, 4 and 6 on it.

 

I'd rather see Upwork assign connects required for new projects based on freelancers' work history and average project value, which is probably a better determinant of what the freelancer can expect to be paid on a new project value than anything Upwork can otherwise measure. In my limited experience, many clients obviously have no clue how much they should expect to spend for completion of their projects, so how can Upwork expect to know better?


I don't see how Upwork could possibly implement different connect charges for every freelancer here; also, if they make connects cheaper based on past project values, it will only encourage spam bidding by low earners.

Hi Will, you are absolutely right. I also believe that most clients are not picking up the right parameters while they are uploading new projects. Like they are making a long term project without giving it any thought if they really have any intention to hire someone on long term basis. But due to their lack of attention, freelancers will have to spend 6 connects.

rafsun_ug
Community Member

Upwork needs lots of money even it doesn't a matter to Upwork, if Freelancers doesn't get jobs or clients never hire anyone. Upwork is getting money whatever the Job was granted to anyone or not! You can see, almost every jobs get more than 50 proposals. That means Upwork earns $45 without anything if there needs a 6 connects...if the job granted to anyone, Upwork earns again 20% commission. It's business brother...it's business! But I strongly believe, what is going on here, is not fair!

Rafsun - It's a business, brother, it's a business - and Upwork has always lost money. We just better hope they manage to stay afloat.

Ya. Its brutal. I think in this way fiverr is far better although limited work. What to do?
florydev
Community Member


Christine A wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

I read the OP in an Eeyore voice and all the replies got a Winnie the Pooh voice and then I chuckled.


Yeah, that's pretty much how I sound IRL.


I prefer to believe myself a Tigger, but I am afraid I might be a Rabbit.


Mark F wrote:

Christine A wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

I read the OP in an Eeyore voice and all the replies got a Winnie the Pooh voice and then I chuckled.


Yeah, that's pretty much how I sound IRL.


I prefer to believe myself a Tigger, but I am afraid I might be a Rabbit.


No, you're definitely a Tigger.


Christine A wrote:

Mark F wrote:

Christine A wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

I read the OP in an Eeyore voice and all the replies got a Winnie the Pooh voice and then I chuckled.


Yeah, that's pretty much how I sound IRL.


I prefer to believe myself a Tigger, but I am afraid I might be a Rabbit.


No, you're definitely a Tigger.


It's an apt description true: Look at those beady little eyes, and that preposterous chin, and those ridiculous striped pajamas


Mark F wrote:

Christine A wrote:

Mark F wrote:

Christine A wrote:

Jennifer M wrote:

I read the OP in an Eeyore voice and all the replies got a Winnie the Pooh voice and then I chuckled.


Yeah, that's pretty much how I sound IRL.


I prefer to believe myself a Tigger, but I am afraid I might be a Rabbit.


No, you're definitely a Tigger.


It's an apt description true: Look at those beady little eyes, and that preposterous chin, and those ridiculous striped pajamas


Mark, nobody wants to know what you wear when you are freelancing. 



Mark, nobody wants to know what you wear when you are freelancing. 


Even more so what I am not wearing...

softwaredesign
Community Member

Ya, this is nutty. It should be one connect for one proposal.

 

6 connects for a $500 job is silly. = 20% + almost $1 in connects.

And the client posted that this is his absolute limit ($500).

 

For $14.99 I get 70 connects which is really 11 proposals.


Eric W wrote:

Ya, this is nutty. It should be one connect for one proposal.

 

6 connects for a $500 job is silly. = 20% + almost $1 in connects.

And the client posted that this is his absolute limit ($500).

 

For $14.99 I get 70 connects which is really 11 proposals.


So, if you get 10% of the jobs you bid on, your connects have paid for themselves many times over.


Eric W wrote:

Ya, this is nutty. It should be one connect for one proposal.

 

6 connects for a $500 job is silly. = 20% + almost $1 in connects.

And the client posted that this is his absolute limit ($500).

 

For $14.99 I get 70 connects which is really 11 proposals.


Actually, if saving a few dollars is important to you, you can buy connects in bundles instead of paying for a plus membership - it's 78 connects for $11.70.

 

Anyway didn't you say awhile back that it would be better not to pay for connects, and you were going to leave Upwork and spend your money on Google ads instead? How did that go?

wlyonsatl
Community Member

How many proposals does the project page say have already been submitted on this project, Rahul?


Will L wrote:

How many proposals does the project page say have already been submitted on this project, Rahul?


I doubt Rahul will find a job post from summer 2019

softwaredesign
Community Member

Ya, it's just stupid.

I've seen jobs with 1 connect that are great, and jobs for 6 connects that look sketch.

Why not just move to 1 connect for all jobs. This 1 or 2 or 4 or 6 is silly.

If you get 60 or so connects for a paid account, thats about 12 proposals per month.

So why not just move to 12 connects for a paid account, or 15, or whatever, and let us go at that.

 

I so long for the days of eLance. When things were simpler.

 

In the U.S., right now, its becoming a lot eaiser to get gig work directly with employers. And that tends to be longer term. With COVID, and all the Zoom meetings, the barrier to remote work is lower.

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