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loyalworker
Community Member

8 months after successfully finished contract client wants a refund/legal actions

Hello there my wonderful family of freelancers!

 

I will keep this short as possible, but apologize me if it takes too much of your time.

 

All of us experienced freelances know that bad clients are inevitable every now and then. Law of numbers, I guess.

 

As title says, 8 long months after successful contract has finished, client asked for a refund. Again, 8 months. I do not have to mention client was happy with the website when delivered, paid and left 5-star feedback. And now client wants a refund because I do not want to provide free work do fix apparent situation with the website. Since 8 months have passed, client is not entitled for a refund and cannot dispute. Only thing client can do, and is doing it, threating with legal actions. I had enough and blocked the client. There is not a single valid reason I should waste any more valuable time and be exposed to the stress of such.

 

Furthermore, I am getting mixed signals from Upwork. Upwork agent, during live chat, told me I did the right thing. On the other hand, support agent over the ticket kindly asked me to reach out to client to find the solution. And I tried. I asked for more money, one of the support agents also told me to ask for extra funds, but client refused and threatened me with legal act. That was the moment when I had enough and blocked client and I have no intention to correspond further. No one should be exposed to such threats, and especially not in given circumstances.

 

Honestly, I see no real point of this topic of mine and I apologize for taking your time. Maybe I just want to hear was blocking the client right thing to do? Also, is there a way to protect myself from such situations in the future? I guess I want to hear your opinions and recommendations.

 

Thank you everyone and sending you some tranquil, good energy.

29 REPLIES 29
colettelewis
Community Member


Ivan I wrote:

Hello there my wonderful family of freelancers!

 

I will keep this short as possible, but apologize me if it takes too much of your time.

 

All of us experienced freelances know that bad clients are inevitable every now and then. Law of numbers, I guess.

 

As title says, 8 long months after successful contract has finished, client asked for a refund. Again, 8 months. I do not have to mention client was happy with the website when delivered, paid and left 5-star feedback. And now client wants a refund because I do not want to provide free work do fix apparent situation with the website. Since 8 months have passed, client is not entitled for a refund and cannot dispute. Only thing client can do, and is doing it, threating with legal actions. I had enough and blocked the client. There is not a single valid reason I should waste any more valuable time and be exposed to the stress of such.

 

Furthermore, I am getting mixed signals from Upwork. Upwork agent, during live chat, told me I did the right thing. On the other hand, support agent over the ticket kindly asked me to reach out to client to find the solution. And I tried. I asked for more money, one of the support agents also told me to ask for extra funds, but client refused and threatened me with legal act. That was the moment when I had enough and blocked client and I have no intention to correspond further. No one should be exposed to such threats, and especially not in given circumstances.

 

Honestly, I see no real point of this topic of mine and I apologize for taking your time. Maybe I just want to hear was blocking the client right thing to do? Also, is there a way to protect myself from such situations in the future? I guess I want to hear your opinions and recommendations.

 

Thank you everyone and sending you some tranquil, good energy.


________________________

 

The client can't take legal action after all this time (if at all!). You have already offered to address the problem with a new contract, and I don't think you can do any more. This may be the end of the matter. If not, keep posting here. 


Nichola L wrote:

Ivan I wrote:

Hello there my wonderful family of freelancers!

 

I will keep this short as possible, but apologize me if it takes too much of your time.

 

All of us experienced freelances know that bad clients are inevitable every now and then. Law of numbers, I guess.

 

As title says, 8 long months after successful contract has finished, client asked for a refund. Again, 8 months. I do not have to mention client was happy with the website when delivered, paid and left 5-star feedback. And now client wants a refund because I do not want to provide free work do fix apparent situation with the website. Since 8 months have passed, client is not entitled for a refund and cannot dispute. Only thing client can do, and is doing it, threating with legal actions. I had enough and blocked the client. There is not a single valid reason I should waste any more valuable time and be exposed to the stress of such.

 

Furthermore, I am getting mixed signals from Upwork. Upwork agent, during live chat, told me I did the right thing. On the other hand, support agent over the ticket kindly asked me to reach out to client to find the solution. And I tried. I asked for more money, one of the support agents also told me to ask for extra funds, but client refused and threatened me with legal act. That was the moment when I had enough and blocked client and I have no intention to correspond further. No one should be exposed to such threats, and especially not in given circumstances.

 

Honestly, I see no real point of this topic of mine and I apologize for taking your time. Maybe I just want to hear was blocking the client right thing to do? Also, is there a way to protect myself from such situations in the future? I guess I want to hear your opinions and recommendations.

 

Thank you everyone and sending you some tranquil, good energy.


________________________

 

The client can't take legal action after all this time (if at all!). You have already offered to address the problem with a new contract, and I don't think you can do any more. This may be the end of the matter. If not, keep posting here. 


Within the U.S., the client typically has at least a couple of years to file a breach of contract claim. 

 

That said, most people who blather about suing are just posturing, and if the freelancer and client are in different jurisdictions it would be expensive to pursue legal action, so it does seem unlikely that it would happen.

kat303
Community Member

IMO you did the right thing in blocking this client especially after 8 months. You did reach out and try to come to a solution but the client didn't want to pay so in order for this to end, you had no other choice but to block the client. 

 

I can't think of anything you can do in the future for situations such as this, unless you specify that for $x amount you will fix future problems. But even with that, if the client decides they don't want to pay there's nothing you can do. Besides you may not want to even include a stipulation of future fixes. 

 

Don't worry about the client taking legal actions. It's just a threat to get you scared and to make you do the work for free. 

prestonhunter
Community Member

This client's request was deeply inappropriate.

loyalworker
Community Member

Nichola, Kathy and Preston, thank your for your posts. I am not worrying about the matter. Guess I just wanted to hear what would you do. And I will definitely keep you posted. For me, this situation is part of history. I blame myself for giving it so much of attention, time and energy, but you cannot be cool headed at all times. Moving forward.

abinadab-agbo
Community Member

You are of course, more than welcome to block such a client.

Nobody should have free rein to harass one so.

The block feature is there to be used when it absolutely has to be used to help you preserve your sanity so you can continue working with other clients of yours.

 

You have no reason to keep such line of communication open in the name of "openness" - such would be damaging to you.

 

florydev
Community Member

Did you deliver the source?

If you did, and you probably should have them you could simply say find someone else to do it.

They could sue you. But what are the odds? Still this is why having Errors and Omissions insurance is a good idea.
loyalworker
Community Member

Abinadab, thank you. Mark, I delivered. Not only I have delivered, I have also migrated the website from my server to client's immediately after I have been paid. 8 months ago. It is sort of a bonus which I do for all my customers. Errors and Omissions insurance is something I have never heard about. Will read about it more. Thank you.

None of us want to play these "gotcha" games. This drags everybody down - clients and freelancers alike.

 

We don't want a "Wild West" mentality where clients can bully freelancers, or vice versa. We all want to work on a platform which exhibits civility and professionalism.

 

A client who returns 8 months after a contract has been closed with threats to take legal action against a freelancer is simply being a bully. There is no way that such behavior can be excused or explained away as something even remotely ethical.

 

Technically, Upwork allows a client 30 days after a fixed-price contract has been closed during which time a dispute can be filed. I am aware of this functionality within the Upwork user interface and policies. The fact that such functionality exists does NOT MEAN IT IS OKAY to request a refund after a contract has been closed.

 

A professional, ethical client will work within the intentions of a contract with a freelancer, and will work within the ways that fixed-price and hourly contracts are intended to operate. After submission of fixed-price milestone work, clients have 14 days to review the work. This is plenty of time. Clients can even click a button to request changes, and reset the clock. Upwork literally places no restriction on the number of times that clients can do that. If a client chooses to "request changes" repeatedly, even when there are no valid changes to request, the only thing that can stop the client from doing so is if the freelancer triggers a dispute.

 

With all of this time and functionality that allows clients to review fixed-price contract submission, there is no reason any ethical, professional client should requst a refund after a contract has been closed. A client who does so is violating the spirit of collaboration and cooperation that should be the hallmark of how this platform works.

Preston, you put that better than I ever could. I agree with every word you wrote.
loyalworker
Community Member

Not sure if it is an option here, but this topic can be closed. Thank you all and be well, my freelancing family.


Ivan I wrote:

Not sure if it is an option here, but this topic can be closed. Thank you all and be well, my freelancing family.



Sorry to burst your bubble, Ivan, but, you asked for "opinions and recommendations" and you must get them Robot tongue

Even to win a lawsuit, the client would have to prove, if I am correct and maybe I'm not, that the error/omission caused a material loss. 

 

Additionally, the contract would have had to have been for ongoing support. It does not sound like the client has a contract for ongoing support, so I don't know that they'd even be able to win such a lawsuit. 

 

Whoever mentioned errors and omissions insurance was right. I carry it and recommend all freelancers do. 

 

I dunno, if you built a website for me and I used it for 8 months and didn't find a problem, and then needed something fixed, I might ask and see if it's something quick and if you would do it as a courtesy, but if the freelancer requested a fee to address the issue, I also understand that time has passed. Maybe a good lesson to put in the scope of work from now on that requests for fixes of bugs or whatever end on such and such date. If the number of revisions or the scope of work is clear, on a fixed price contract, I don't really see how a court would even find in the client's favor, unless the client could prove without a doubt that the error/bug was (a) your fault and (b) causing a material loss. Based on the way the kind of client it sounds like (to me) I don't think they could prove those things...but that's a hunch, not a fact. 

As I said, I will keep you posted about the situation. So, here is an update.

 

Even though justice is on my side, and I have been recommended by the Upwork agents that I did the right thing by blocking her, it seems nothing is enough. Guess the Upwork broke under pressure and now is recommending me to do totally different thing. To clarify it for you. I have just been informed by new support ticket that the client is requesting from Upwork my personal information such as address etc, and they will actually review client's request! And now they are recommending me to get in touch with the client. Imagine that! It is obivous that justice (for the sake of not having better word) is not enough in here.

 

Update: Message from a client. Yes, I unblocked her. She says that she already has my private information. These information will be passed to her solicitors who will contact me directly.

 

Any recommendations on what should I do? It is getting interesting, but I must admit that I became stressed because of it.

Update: Upwork support said they have not given my personal info to her. I guess she is still using scaring tactics. What a bully! Clients of such should be suspended, or banned from using Upwork.

I don't personally believe she has a case, but you would do good to pay an hourly fee to consult with an attorney and go over your contract to be safe. Also, wait until you get served...it's unlikely she's going to pay all the fees to serve you papers and bring you to court if she can't even be bothered to pay a small fee to do whatever update she is requesting...

Amanda, thank you! I appreciate your insights. It seems you know about the law matters much more than I do. I will do exactly that, wait for papers. If it happens at the first place. At the moment I am still not completely sure I should contact my lawyers since nothing is official yet. Exciting times!

 

Furthermore, can anyone explain me, if particular matter goes to court, will I have to travel to the her country, or she will come here? How does it work?

 

Will continue to inform you all about the situation, my wonderful freelancers. And I sincerely  hope such thing will not happen to you. I have been in business for 15+ years, and this is top 2 of the worse clients. I guess such situations are inevitable at times. Aynways, maybe after this matter is closed, all of us freelancers will be protected more.


Ivan I wrote:

Amanda, thank you! I appreciate your insights. It seems you know about the law matters much more than I do. I will do exactly that, wait for papers. If it happens at the first place. At the moment I am still not completely sure I should contact my lawyers since nothing is official yet. Exciting times!

 

Furthermore, can anyone explain me, if particular matter goes to court, will I have to travel to the her country, or she will come here? How does it work?

 

Will continue to inform you all about the situation, my wonderful freelancers. And I sincerely  hope such thing will not happen to you. I have been in business for 15+ years, and this is top 2 of the worse clients. I guess such situations are inevitable at times. Aynways, maybe after this matter is closed, all of us freelancers will be protected more.


You're very welcome. I only have limited knowledge in that I have had to ask about some of these things myself. I have no clue how it would work for her to try and sue you from another country. Honestly, I don't think she even could really without a great expense to her. Think about it? She'd have to pay for someone to serve you with papers in your country, and who would even have jurisdiction? And if she did find a judgement against you in her country who would enforce it? Her country doesn't have jurisdiction in yours and this is a minor civil manner. I think she's bluffing you and trying to scare you. But talk to a lawyer to know for sure. I'm just going on my limited legal knowledge, which again, is limited. 🙂 Keep us posted. I'm curious to see how this pans out. I appreciate you sharing it with the community because I'm sure any of us could experience this eventually. 

kochubei_valeria
Community Member

Hi Ivan,

 

Sorry to hear you're having issues with one of your clients. I see that you are communicating with one of our agents and she's been assisting you with your questions. As others have already mentioned on this thread, you can also speak to a legal adviser if you have any questions about how to proceed.

 

For general information about requests to obtain a user's contact/personal information, please refer to Upwork Privacy Policy and this help article.

~ Valeria
Upwork

Valeria, thank you. You do not have to be sorry, because sorry will not help me or the other freelancers that might find themselves in a similar situation. I understand some clients spent thousands of dollars on Upwork, and maybe you even prefer them. However, Upwork should not become a place where people, both freelancers and clients will come to work knowing they are not protected in certain scenarios. When someone comes to bully you after such a long time after contract has been finished successfully, such client deserves at least temporary account suspension. Again, I understand it is a lot about the money, but think in a long run, and out of the box, please. We all must keep this place enjoyable to come to work to.

Update! So as you are aware of, I was recommended again, but this time to reach out to client to try to resolve the situation directly with her. I did what I was told and got in touch. Client is completely ignoring my questions and just focusing on the legal part. Oh, the threats. Stay tuned my beautiful freelancers! I will keep you posted.


Ivan I wrote:

Update! So as you are aware of, I was recommended again, but this time to reach out to client to try to resolve the situation directly with her. I did what I was told and got in touch. Client is completely ignoring my questions and just focusing on the legal part. Oh, the threats. Stay tuned my beautiful freelancers! I will keep you posted.


Ivan, the word is recommended. not ordered. It's been 8 months. IMO every time you try to communicate with this client you keep this situation alive. Besides, youi've already tried that. I think it's time to close this and move on. Block this client here and any other place where she is able to communicate to you. 

 

International law is Very expensive and very hard to enforce. In some cases it can't be enforced. I would put this situation to rest and not think about it any more unless, by some rare miracle on the clients part, you are served. T\hen you can consult an attorney. No need to now as nothing is happening. I feel what this client is doing is to try and scare you with her threats and to intimidate you into doing what she wants. From this point on, do not communicate with her, do not conact her, do not try to negociate anything with her. Move on and forget about this situation. 

Kathy, thank you. I am aware of the costs and complexity, but I am no longer sure if everything is just an empty threat. Client did try to get my personal information over Upwork. I guess she wants my info for her solicitor who can then contact me over mail or email. Guess all boils down to Upwork and if they will crack under pressure and disclose my data. Will keep you posted. Thank you my family of freelancers.

Hi! Ivan.

The advice you received to not resume communication with such client is the best.

Upwork will release your info if the request complies with it's subpoena protocol, which Valeria referred you to earlier.


Ivan I wrote:
Kathy, thank you. I am aware of the costs and complexity, but I am no longer sure if everything is just an empty threat. Client did try to get my personal information over Upwork. I guess she wants my info for her solicitor who can then contact me over mail or email. Guess all boils down to Upwork and if they will crack under pressure and disclose my data. Will keep you posted. Thank you my family of freelancers.

I suspect she wants your address for the time-old tradition of having her solicitor send a threatening letter that means nothing...Still, all empty threats. 

Amanda, you are a star! 🙂 Thank you for your opinions and your time. So, if I ever receive such letter, I can just redirect it to trash can?

 

Tiffany, that is exactly what I did. No more any interaction with the client. Made me sick and tired for nothing.

Ivan - If the client and you are in different countries, it's going to be so difficult to enforce anything. Do not communicate AT ALL with this client. Do not contact in any way Upwork about this client. Just move on. If you get a letter. it's a letter. 

 

I live in the U.S. While playing a friend jumped on my sons arm breaking it to the point where he needed pins in it. It wasn't intentional, but I contacted a lawyer to determine if I could sue the boys mother for medical and hospital expenses. The lawyers , (as a lot of other lawyers) offered free consultation. He wrote a letter to the boys mothers. She wrote back she had no money to pay. and that was the end of the case. 

 

Don't worry about letters it's part of a lawyers consultation. Worry when you get a summons hand delivered to you which, although I am not a lawyer, I highly doubt it will go that far. It will cost the client especially if in another country much more then she had to pay you for the job.

petra_r
Community Member


Kathy T wrote:

 

I live in the U.S. While playing a friend jumped on my sons arm breaking it to the point where he needed pins in it. It wasn't intentional, but I contacted a lawyer to determine if I could sue the boys mother for medical and hospital expenses. The lawyers , (as a lot of other lawyers) offered free consultation. He wrote a letter to the boys mothers. She wrote back she had no money to pay. and that was the end of the case. 


Off-topic warning on:

In any of the civilized countries I have lived, there would have been no hospital or medical expenses to pay because civilized countries have health cover for all citizens, so mothers of little boys who play and have accidents don't have to try and sue each other.

Off-topic warning off.


Ivan I wrote:

Update! So as you are aware of, I was recommended again, but this time to reach out to client to try to resolve the situation directly with her. I did what I was told and got in touch. Client is completely ignoring my questions and just focusing on the legal part. Oh, the threats. Stay tuned my beautiful freelancers! I will keep you posted.


If I were you, I would just stop participating in this.

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