A client behind the client

[snusilda]

Hi community, I want to ask for advice on the situation.

Long story short, I was working with a client on designing two things within one fixed-price project. I did initial work, we went through a few rounds of revisions for both things (one was based on another), the client approved everything and was happy. Now here I thought the project was over, but then the client tells me that he is waiting for the feedback from his own client to proceed. So apparently it was a second-hand project, let's call it like that. After a couple of days, he sends me the feedback from his client (CEO of the brand) and apparently while they liked the work in general, there are many things that need to be changed. They basically have a whole different vibe in mind than my client led me on and approved. 

Now I'm unsure what to do as I feel it won't really be fair for me to change it all again for free (after already doing revisions before). At the same time, after all it was a fixed-price project, so I'm also unsure if it's fair to ask for more money. But there's quite a lot of changes to be done just because the client himself didn't really understand the brand well, apparently.

It was my mistake to not discuss the number and scope of revisions before, and I'll note that for the future (it's only my 3rd design project, so a rookie mistake), but maybe someone can advise me on what to do now. What's the best way to communicate this situation to the client without causing negativity or risking some backfire? 

[prestonhunter · Accepted solution]

re: "What's the best way to communicate this situation to the client without causing negativity or risking some backfire?"

Tell him:

"I would be happy to make those changes. The scope of the original task has already been fulfilled. Would you like to close this contract and create a new, flexible hourly contract for me to do that work? Or would you like to create a new milestone for $150?"

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Here are some lame excuses:

- My dog ate my homework.

- I didn't hear my alarm clock go off

- The bus was late

- My client is asking for some changes.

Oleksandra:

Somebody hired you.

THAT is your client.

As a freelancer, I DON'T CARE if you have a client. I have a contract WITH YOU.

The rules don't change because your client has a client.

If you have a fixed-price contract, then that contract states what you will do.

If the client asks for ANYTHING outside of the original agreement, then the answer is:

"Yes, I would be happy to do that. Would you like to add a new milestone or $50 for that, or close the current contract and create an hourly contract?"

Ultimately, your question is really about scope creep and a client asking for free work. It doesn't matter if he REALLY has a client, or he is PRETENDING to have a client, or if he never mentions another client.

Your contract is your contract, and you should require a client to stick to that contract, or close the contract and create an hourly contract that he can use to ask for anything he wants.

If your fixed-price contract allowed for some "flexiblity" or allowed for "changes and revisions", without strictly limiting those, then you made a mistake in setting up the original contract. You may need to take your lumps with this one, and put some thought into how to limit changes in the next fixed-price contract. Your fixed-price contracts SHOULD specifically state that no changes are allowed, or if they are allowed, there is a limit to the number of revisions, or the time spent on revisions.

Of course we are polite and professional no matter what. We are calm and kind. But that doesn't mean we work for free. If a client asks for out-of-scope work, that is asking a freelancer to work for free, which is a violation of Upwork ToS.

[kinector]

Preston is 100% right about the value chain. You're not in any way responsible to your client's customer, only to the legal entity who contracted you directly.

Business people know this for sure. Your client might be a professional and doing this deliberately, or too new to everything to know any better.

If your client didn't explain the purpose and the aim properly before the deal was struck, most likely they are trying to outsource something to just about anybody and cut some profit out of the process.

It's up to you to decide who you qualify as your client and how you define your value to them. Perhaps a few more screening questions to avoid this in the future.

My rule of thumb is that if after initial discussions and basic project scoping I'm still unsure how my client turns my results into their profit, I won't take the offer. Too unsure, too risky, and too vague. Worst case, the client is a little fishy on purpose. No go.

Besides those lame excuses Preston listed, you can also try my personal favorite: I didn't get my morning coconut because the lockdown rules in Malaysia prohibited street stalls from opening (and my body wakes up only in the afternoon so doing the climbing myself is not feasible). 😀:desert_island:🤣 Totally valid and acceptable to most. Proven to work. 😉

[snusilda]

Thanks Preston and Mikko for your inputs! Yes, the question was in fact about scope creep, I just didn't think about it like that before you said it. Never been sub-contracted in this way before and didn't expect the scope creep to appear after the client already seemingly approved everything, lol. Hopefully we'll find an understanding with a client on this one, and it's definitely a lesson learnt for all the future contracts. 

Mikko R wrote:
My rule of thumb is that if after initial discussions and basic project scoping I'm still unsure how my client turns my results into their profit, I won't take the offer. Too unsure, too risky, and too vague. Worst case, the client is a little fishy on purpose. No go.

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That's an awesome way to screen the projects. Thanks a lot for sharing, I will definitely use it!

[84601750]

There's an option to allow for 3rd party when a project is created. I always uncheck that, then I confirm in writing that no others are involved. I don't need a go-between, expecially since my product has some really neat Intellectual Property. I've had times where there were time lapses and I suspect a go-between. I think some do it and hide it.  Maybe the rates are cheaper, and maybe 3rd is more condusive to routine work vs creative design which is where I'm at with **Edited for Community Guidelines**