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ritadelr
Community Member

A client tricked me... again!

Hello everyone! 

I feel so bad for having to ask for help again knowing that a lot of people will come for me and blame me for this but I have been tricked again for trusting a client... So I have started this contract with this client for a Visual Identity project and we've split it into 2 milestones one after the 1st task gets approved and the 2nd after I deliver everything. After MULTIPLE reviews which I didn't say no to because I just accepted the job because it's something that I am personally passionate about... the client came once the visual identity was almost done and requested to put everything in a google drive file and then lastly to send them the landing page which I did since we were almost done and I thought that there is another milestone so I fully trust them and everything is going well so far... well guess what?! They never put the 2nd milestone or activated it and I didn't notice because I've had a super busy week and they tricked me into getting what they needed and stopped answering me. I am in such a bad place because I've been here before and this time it's worse because the first milestone is not even worth 1 logo and I have designed a full visual identity for them which they are already using in their social media and website. I contacted the platform's support team to contact them for me but they are ignoring their emails as well. So what should I do? How can people get away with something like this? and yes I do acknowledge my mistake but like I said it was a busy week and didn't bother to double-check if they have activated the milestone. Please help.

19 REPLIES 19
a_lipsey
Community Member

Okay, well, you know all the schpiel about not working without a funded milestone. Being busy is not really excuse for making sure that things are in order for you to work with someone. So continue to tighten up your personal system to be more careful.

 

That said, I believe you can issue a cease and desist order or take down order to them since they are using work they did not pay for, and, therefore, you still own the copyright to it. Tell them you'd be happy to release it to them for use if they would pay you (through UW) as agreed. 

 

THat's the only recourse I suspect you have.  

They stopped answering through UW, is it okay if I send an email to them that way I am sure that they will read it? I make sure to follow the platform's guidelines so I didn't want to contact them via email even if they provided me with it

You are free to contact them outside the platform. Just make sure you don't accept any payment except through Upwork.

I'm relieved thank you for your help all of you! Do you know any platforms who help freelancers solve legal problems?


Ghita S wrote:

I'm relieved thank you for your help all of you! Do you know any platforms who help freelancers solve legal problems?


That would all depend on your jurisdiction, really.

 

However, even if they try to not pay by claiming the work wasn't done as specified, that still doesn't give them the right to use what you've already done. If they end up using it without payment, you can always file a copyright claim against them with the relevant governing body in their area (in the US, you could file a DMCA claim).

 

And as others have pointed out, you're free to communicate with them however you like. Upwork only requires that you get paid on Upwork, not communicate.

re: "Do you know any platforms who help freelancers solve legal problems?"

 

Lawyers to whom you pay large amounts of money.

 

As a practical matter, you need to maintain a philosophy that "what happens on Upwork stays on Upwork."

 

For 99% of situations:

If you have a problem with an Upwork client, then the place to resolve it is on the Upwork problem.

And nowhere else.


Preston H wrote:

 

For 99% of situations:

If you have a problem with an Upwork client, then the place to resolve it is on the Upwork problem.

And nowhere else.


Except, of course, for the many, many, many situations we see here in which a milestone was never created or there was no contract, and so the freelancer has no recourse through Upwork but may have a variety of options (the most common of which is sending a FREE takedown notice).


Preston H wrote:

As a practical matter, you need to maintain a philosophy that "what happens on Upwork stays on Upwork."


No, she does not, and she should not, nor should she be encouraged to encourage clients to cheat freelancers.

 


Preston H wrote:

Lawyers to whom you pay large amounts of money.


This is factually incorrect. She doesn't need a lawyer, she can spend a few minutes educating herself how to issue a takedown-notice herself and a few more minutes to issue the takedown notice.

 

It does not cost anything and there are free templates on the net you can download and just include your name.

My client now is back after I've emailed them and told them that what they did is illegal and now they are playing the "We don't like your quality fo work" card when they were all over it before disappearing and I am speechless at this point, they're trying their best to get out of this without paying one more penny 

re: "now they are playing the 'We don't like your quality of work' card..."

 

Clients may claim to not like the quality of a freelancer's work. That is fine. That is their right.

 

That has nothing to do with their obligation to pay for the work that they hired a freelancer to do.

 

If a client does not like the quality of a freelancer's work, then the client has the right to leave honest feedback reflecting how they feel about the work.

 

The client also has the right to stop working with that freelancer. The client could in fact choose to never work with that freelancer again.

 

If a client has excuses or questions, you can always suggest that they come to the Community Forum to discuss their concerns.

 

Bu the way, I am glad that you see through the client's game. I never like to see freelancers say "the client did not like my work." I am glad you don't think that and did not say that. The correct phrase is always "the client claimed he did not like my work."


Preston H wrote:

re: "now they are playing the 'We don't like your quality of work' card..."

 

Clients may claim to not like the quality of a freelancer's work. That is fine. That is their right.

 

That has nothing to do with their obligation to pay for the work that they hired a freelancer to do.

 

If a client does not like the quality of a freelancer's work, then the client has the right to leave honest feedback reflecting how they feel about the work.

 

The client also has the right to stop working with that freelancer. The client could in fact choose to never work with that freelancer again.

 

 

 

 


I totally agree with you, however, it is something that they would do at first not until they've had the majority of the project done and most of it delivered to them and at multiple points, they would say and I quote: WOW!! fantastic job, I love it!! So yes, they are claiming they don't like it to get away with what they've done.

petra_r
Community Member


Ghita S wrote:

My client now is back after I've emailed them and told them that what they did is illegal and now they are playing the "We don't like your quality fo work" card


Tell them that's fine, you'll use the work yourself and they can take it down and not use it if they don't like it. Be firm but professional.

The client needs to understand that they have only two choices:

  1. Use the work and pay
  2. NOT use the work and not pay.
ritadelr
Community Member



Tell them that's fine, you'll use the work yourself and they can take it down and not use it if they don't like it. Be firm but professional.

The client needs to understand that they have only two choices:

  1. Use the work and pay
  2. NOT use the work and not pay.

 

Here is what I wrote:

 

"At this point, I am not sure what to decide yet but we can either resume where we left off and complete this project by giving me clear instructions on what you'd like on the remaining tasks which I'll be more than happy to complete or we can end this here and you can put and release the milestone that's left of our agreement and I'll give you a copyright release so that you can use my designs legally."

 

They decided to ignore me again

Hi Ghita,

 

I'm sorry about the issue you're having with this client. I see you already have an open ticket and our team is assisting you directly. You also received sound advice from experienced freelancers here in the Community and I wanted to invite you to follow up on your open ticket in case you don't hear back from your client or come to an impasse, so we could advise you regarding your options and any questions you might have.

~ Vladimir
Upwork
michael_skaggs
Community Member

If you've already given them the work and the milestone for it was never activated, there's not a whole lot you can do to get your money through Upwork.

 

On the plus side, however: Since they haven't paid you, you still retain all copyrights until payment is rendered. So if they use your work, they're technically breaking the law and could be liable for civil penalties depending on the jurisdiction. Perhaps you could politely remind them of this fact.

 

Something simple, yet professional (you could try using this as a guideline to make your own message):

 

"Hi $CLIENT,

I just wanted to let you know that the payment for $WORK_DONE is still due. I know it's been a crazy week and everyone's been busy, so I'm sure the milestone slipped through the cracks. If you could get that activated and released, we can go ahead and finish this contract and everyone will have one less thing to worry about. Once payment is made and our agreement is fulfilled, ownership of the copyrights involved in my part of the work will belong to you, and you'll be free to start using the designs as we discussed.

 

Have a wonderful day!"

Thank you Michael, the problem is that I have provided source files for everything and we still had some designs left but they weren't a big deal since the brand guidelines were ready so I'm sure they will take this to their advantage and say that I cannot be paid since I didn't complete all the tasks. 


Ghita S wrote:

Thank you Michael, the problem is that I have provided source files for everything and we still had some designs left but they weren't a big deal since the brand guidelines were ready so I'm sure they will take this to their advantage and say that I cannot be paid since I didn't complete all the tasks. 


Yes, you provided the files but they never paid for them. Therefore, you retain the copyright and it is illegal for them to use the material.

How can she prove that she owns the copyright? I know that it doesn't require registration, but legally it kind of does...


Juan C wrote:

How can she prove that she owns the copyright? I know that it doesn't require registration, but legally it kind of does...


Hosting companies don't tend to mess about, they just pull the plug.

I have only done one, the site (not just the photo that was used) was down inside 2 hours

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