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hibaz1
Community Member

A test they say ?!

Hi guys,

 

What is it with clients wanting you to start working on their project before awarding you the job ?

 

How can someone ask you to send a project simple or a test as they say, while a test in my case which is market research, means that I will spend time and once I start I will delever a whole work logically ?!

 

I really don't get it ... 😞

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
kinector
Community Member

Yes, those are mostly scammers. Asking for free work is against the ToS and there is guidance on how to run test projects: make a small assignment and pay for it. Then expand the work with another bigger project.

 

You can flag them and let the admins check them out.

View solution in original post

20 REPLIES 20
kam_andru
Community Member

Exactly, I do see few job posts the same as that, as I'm a graphic designer, I will send my previous works to them, that will be no use for them, but in your case, that is not possible as every research is useful for your future projects.

hibaz1
Community Member

Most of my researches are confidential, it is not really an area where we can test things, because even if I deliver an incomplete research, the client can ask me for more deep details

kinector
Community Member

Yes, those are mostly scammers. Asking for free work is against the ToS and there is guidance on how to run test projects: make a small assignment and pay for it. Then expand the work with another bigger project.

 

You can flag them and let the admins check them out.

hibaz1
Community Member

Thank you Mikko for the clarification I doubted that there is something wrong with the situation ...

kinector
Community Member


Wahiba A wrote:

Thank you Mikko for the clarification I doubted that there is something wrong with the situation ...


Your sixth sense will develop pretty fast, I'm thinking. Smiley Very Happy

 

Don't worry, keep going.

Wahiba:

 

If YOU wanted a freelancer to work for you, then you would hire her using an official contract and you would pay her for her time.

 

You can expect other people to do the same.

 

If you have doubts about a client's behavioral, the put yourself in their shoes and consider what YOU would do.

wlyonsatl
Community Member

Wahiba,

 

In many areas on Upwork I'd expect few clients will hire a freelancer without some indication of their skills or experience and samples of previous work product.

 

You can remove all identifying or other customer-specific information from some of the samples of your best work for previous clients, such that the resulting samples do not violate your existing NDAs. Or just create some dummy examples.

 

If you have any doubts about your samples based on actual work, run the idea and samples by an attorney to ensure you are making sufficient changes to the documents so you are not violating your existing NDAs.

 

These examples/samples will be usable for future proposals you submit on new projects, so they're worth their initial cost and effort.

 

By no means should you agree to do a small unpaid "test" (a violation of Upwork's rules) or even a small paid "test" for a client you don't trust. If the client is a scammer, by doing even a small paid project through Upwork you'll be giving them leverage to make unfair demands of you under the threat of negative feedback, which they could exploit if they are scammers.

hibaz1
Community Member

Thank you Will, I understand perfectly what you're saying, so kind of you !


@wlyonsatl wrote:

Wahiba,

 

In many areas on Upwork I'd expect few clients will hire a freelancer without some indication of their skills or experience and samples of previous work product.

 

You can remove all identifying or other customer-specific information from some of the samples of your best work for previous clients, such that the resulting samples do not violate your existing NDAs. Or just create some dummy examples.

 

If you have any doubts about your samples based on actual work, run the idea and samples by an attorney to ensure you are making sufficient changes to the documents so you are not violating your existing NDAs.

 

These examples/samples will be usable for future proposals you submit on new projects, so they're worth their initial cost and effort.

 

By no means should you agree to do a small unpaid "test" (a violation of Upwork's rules) or even a small paid "test" for a client you don't trust. If the client is a scammer, by doing even a small paid project through Upwork you'll be giving them leverage to make unfair demands of you under the threat of negative feedback, which they could exploit if they are scammers.


 

I am in a similar situation right now: I am in an active contract with a client who, after I delivedered the first and entirely legitimate milestone, positioned on me a 2nd milestone with instructions that are against the TOS and had not been agreed with me previously.

All this has been duly flagged and I am awaiting for developments however, I wonder: wouldn't it be better if, as freelancers, we were allowed and required to approve individual milestones too, so that an open contract does not become an avenue for inappropriate requests? 

Deborah P.,

 

I can't think of anything stranger in Upwork's rules than allowing clients to add milestones to active contracts without the agreement of the freelancer.

 

It is a recipe for abuse by a certain type of client.

 

It is also contrary to the whole concept of what a "contract" between two parties should be.

Hi Deborah,

 

I'm sorry to hear about your experience on the contract in question. Please note that a freelancer isn't required to work on Milestones they didn't agree to as outlined in the section 2 of the Optional Service Contract Terms. The client needs to get freelancer's consent before adding a new Milestone. If the freelancer doesn't accept the added Milestone they can reject it by terminating the contract.

I'll forward your feedback to our team, feel free to follow up if you need further assistance.

~ Vladimir
Upwork


Vladimir G wrote:

Hi Deborah,

 

I'm sorry to hear about your experience on the contract in question. Please note that a freelancer isn't required to work on Milestones they didn't agree to as outlined in the section 2 of the Optional Service Contract Terms. The client needs to get freelancer's consent before adding a new Milestone. If the freelancer doesn't accept the added Milestone they can reject it by terminating the contract.

I'll forward your feedback to our team, feel free to follow up if you need further assistance.


Hello Vladimir, thanks for coming back. Something weird happened: the contract has been put on hold for about 12 hours, then it has been reactivated and the milestone with the instructions conflicting with TOS and that were never agreed with me is still there as it was, as nothing happened. The client has created a new misleading job post, same as the previous one that had been cancelled. He is operating as if nothing happened. I therefore reported his message including the illegal instructions for the 2nd milestone.Has something been lost during the process? 

Hi Deborah,

 

Thank you for the follow-up. I checked and see our team has already taken appropriate action. While I won't be able to share the specifics, I'd like to thank you for taking the correct steps and reporting the violation. 

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Vladimiar,

 

Is this the text you are referring to?

 

"Users agree that, once accepted, the terms of the Service Contract cannot be modified by a User without obtaining the consent of the other before making changes to the Service Contract, including by adding additional or different milestones, by closing a Service Contract, or making other changes to the Service Contract on the Site. If consent of the other party is not first obtained, the other party may reject such changes by terminating the Service Contract or accept such changes by continuing to work on the Service Contract."

 

So, if a fixed price contract initially has five milestones, the freelancer is working on Milestone 3 and the client unilaterally adds a Milestone 6, the freelancer is presumed by Upwork to have accepted Milestone 6 if the freelancer completes work on Milestones 3, 4 and/or 5?

 

But if the freelancer doesn't want to accept the new Milestone 6 as part of the current contract, his/her only choice is to cancel the contract (meaning (s)he won't be paid for the work already done on Milestone 3?

 

That doesn't sound like a good solution for Upwork or the freelancer.

Hi Will,

 

I'd like to first clarify that we don't usually respond to hypothetical scenarios. However, in the scenario you proposed the freelancer can communicate with the client in Messages and reject the 6th milestone they didn't agreed to. They can close the contract after finishing the agreed 5th milestone and getting paid.

 

The Optional Service Contract Terms are the default and apply to the contract unless both parties agreed to different terms. In that case, the agreed terms would supersede the default ones.

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Thank you very much for the clarification, Vladimir.

The final sentence...

 

"If consent of the other party is not first obtained, the other party may reject such changes by terminating the Service Contract or accept such changes by continuing to work on the Service Contract."

 

...clearly does not allow for a party to reject such changes by the other party AND continue to adhere to the terms of the original contract without terminating the Service contract.

 

So I hope the appropriate people at Upwork update this clause so it reflects actual options available to one party when another party asks for changes after a contract is in place.

The Optional Service Contract Terms…

 

https://www.upwork.com/legal#optional-service-contract-terms

 

…still only allow a freelancer to “reject such changes by terminating the Service Contract or accept such changes by continuing to work on the Service Contract.”

 

There is no option to simply reject the addition of a new milestone by the client AND continue to work to complete the project under its originally-agreed terms.

 

This needs to be changed.

VladimirG
Community Manager
Community Manager

Hi Wahiba,

 

I read your comment, checked your conversation and it appears you've taken the correct approach in addressing the request you received.

Freelancers should get paid for the work they provide. If a freelancer is pressured to create work without payment or secured funding, it is against Upwork TOS and they should flag it for our team. Users can find more advice and best practices for working safely and successfully on Upwork here.

~ Vladimir
Upwork
hibaz1
Community Member

Thank you Vladimir for your professionalism and your responsiveness, appreciate it 🙂

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