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All hours got refunded without any pre-notification?

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Active Member
Linh T Member Since: Apr 14, 2018
1 of 10
My Contract with a client was suspended. ( I don't know why, my profile is clean, my identity is clear- Maybe it's on the client side?) And the hours, I have put in (manually) was all refunded- tho I didn't get any notification beforehand. The works I have done for this client was true, this client even approved my works in the chat. I can't make sense of what is happening with this contract. Could you help point to the right direction of what is going on with this one? Any feedback is appreciated,
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Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
2 of 10

Linh T wrote:
My Contract with a client was suspended. ( I don't know why, my profile is clean, my identity is clear- Maybe it's on the client side?) And the hours, I have put in (manually) was all refunded- 

The client never paid for those hours.

There is no protection for manual time.

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Moderator
Bojan S Moderator Member Since: Mar 9, 2018
3 of 10

Hi Linh,

 

When the client fails to pay for hours logged by the freelancer, any hours that aren't covered by Upwork Hourly Protection may be reversed. 

 

Our team will reach out to you directly via email with more information about this case.

 

Thank you!

~ Bojan
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Community Guru
Will L Member Since: Jul 9, 2015
4 of 10

Linh,

 

Technically, your client was never charged for these hours you booked manually, so there was no "refund."

 

This is one of the most common problems new freelancers come to this board to ask about.

 

It is no secret this is a major point of misunderstanding for some new freelancers - the "Manual time does not qualify for Hourly Payment Protection" notification should be in very large, flashing red letters on the Add Manual Time page.

 

https://support.upwork.com/hc/en-us/articles/211068488-Add-Manual-Time

 

Or maybe new freelancers should have to sign a document that says something like "I know no client is ever obliged to pay me for manual hours I submit to Upwork."

 

Never use manual time on a project with a client you do not already know well and trust. Upwork's payment protection rules are very helpful, but you have to use them correctly. Upwork will not help you in any way to get paid on time booked manually that any client - for any reason, or no reason at all - does not agree to pay.

 

Good luck.

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Active Member
Linh T Member Since: Apr 14, 2018
5 of 10

Thanks, Will. 
Hard learned lession, 
I hope it will turn out okay, tho with these reponses of you guys' I have very little to none- as this is a first job with this one. 
I's just gotten back to freelancing after awhile, and this is quite disappointing tho it was on me. 

Thanks for all the responses, 

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Community Guru
Will L Member Since: Jul 9, 2015
6 of 10

It is odd that Upwork doesn't do more to prevent new freelancers from performing work using manual hours for which the freelancers may never be paid.

 

If these freelancers don't get paid, neither does Upwork. And Upwork's shareholders would no doubt like to see Upwork receiving as much fee revenue as possible.

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Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
7 of 10

Will L wrote:

 

If these freelancers don't get paid, neither does Upwork. And Upwork's shareholders would no doubt like to see Upwork receiving as much fee revenue as possible.


Mathematically Upwork is better off if the freelancer uses manual time when a client fails to pay like in this case...

 

Client fails to pay properly tracked time: Upwork not only loses its fee, it also has to pay the full amount out of its own pocket.

Client fails to pay manual time: Upwork does not get its fee, but also does not have to pay anything out of its own pocket.

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Community Guru
Will L Member Since: Jul 9, 2015
8 of 10

By that "logic," Petra, Upwork should entirely do away with payment protection on all hourly projects, which would reduce Upwork's losses on fraudulent payment behavior by hourly project clients to zero.

 

I suspect that is not a seductive idea for Upwork management, but I could be wrong.

 

 

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Active Member
Linh T Member Since: Apr 14, 2018
9 of 10

Hi, I just wanted to follow up with an update from my story that this client has not responded to my messages for 2 weeks- and Upwork help desk only has been saying that they have reversed the hours due to manual and that's it (I understand it's not their responsibility)  

 

So I'm just writing this to ask for community's advise on what to do next as I have already lost my effort and time into this for nothing I don't want to also lose my JSS due to this (I don't think it's fair if that is the case); I just wanted it go away now to be honest. 

The question is: If I close the contract should I close it due to client's inactivity only, or escalate it somewhere for protecting my profile's JSS? I'm not 100% sure of how this works. 

Thank you, 

PS: I do have all evidence of my works through exchanges with this person on Upwork which includes my complete work sent as an engineering package, my "manual" bill listing details of what I done with the hours- and they all have the approvals of his/ hers before the event. 

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Community Guru
Preston H Member Since: Nov 24, 2014
10 of 10

You have evidence that you used manual time?

You don't need evidence, because manual time is not protected.

 

What do you do next?

Do not work for this client again, because he can not be trusted.

 

In the future, avoid using manual time. It is not protected.

 

Any work that you did for this client which the client did not pay for?

That work belongs to you. You may sell it or post it on your portfolio or do anything you want with it.

 

If you have not already closed the contract, then do so now.

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