Always Communicating with Clients via Upwork's Messaging System

[wlyonsatl]

For the first time ever I got the following message from Upwork when replying to a potential client’s request for a proposal –

“Make sure that your message to this client does not include your contact information. By keeping your conversations on Upwork, you'll be able to better substantiate your claims if a dispute with a client arises. You'll also help our security systems protect your account from phishing, malware, and scams.”

Some posters on this board have claimed that it doesn’t matter how freelancer and client communicate. While Upwork doesn’t force client and freelancer to use any particular communication channel, there can be no argument against using Upwork’s system for at least the most important written communication about a project in case a dispute needs to be resolved with Upwork’s involvement. 

[gilbert-phyllis]

On my very first project here, UW's message system flaked out twice when the client and I had scheduled an online meet with her boss to review progress and discuss next steps. The second time, we realized it was totally unreliable and exchanged off-site contact info. They became a repeat client and it became our habit to communicate by email and phone, and just use UW for the financial transactions. Thereafter, I've made it a rule to always exchange contact info with new clients, and then follow their lead and use whichever channel they prefer for day-to-day comms. 

Moderators have consistently confirmed that we are free to communicate any way we choose, as long as all the money changes hands on the platform. I agree that it's smart to have everything preserved in UW messages but jeez, it's unfeasibly clunky and difficult to be diligent about.

If UW has changed its policy about this, then I REALLY hope a moderator weighs in here, immediately. To my knowledge, there has been no official announcement.

[petra_r]

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Phyllis G wrote:

Thereafter, I've made it a rule to always exchange contact info with new clients, and then follow their lead and use whichever channel they prefer for day-to-day comms. 

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I do the same 🙂

Today I have communicated with clients via Slack, Skype and email. Oh, and Facebook. I have not touched the Messenger except to decline an invite.

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Phyllis G wrote:

If UW has changed its policy about this, then I REALLY hope a moderator weighs in here, immediately. To my knowledge, there has been no official announcement.

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If they had changed their policy, I'm sure the system would not allow us to proceed with the proposal after the warning.

[wlyonsatl]

Phyllis,

Unless Upwork is recording your calls with clients via the Upwork voice call system, the only Upwork system that matters for resolving disputes would be the separate written message system.

As far as I know, the Upwork voice call system does not record calls, though I'd like to  know if it does as that could be useful (and creepy, too).

As it is, I never bother using Upwork's voice call system. Phones and Skype calls work fine, or whatever other system the client prefers (Zoom, etc.). 

[petra_r]

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Will L wrote:

As far as I know, the Upwork voice call system does not record calls, though I'd like to  know if it does as that could be useful (and creepy, too).

 

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As they would have to declare that by law I doubt it, as on the three (unsuccessful) occasions I tried to use it, there was no such declaration.

California's wiretapping law is a "two-party consent" law. California makes it a crime to record or eavesdrop on any confidential communication, including a private conversation or telephone call, without the consent of all parties to the conversation. See Cal. Penal Code § 632.

Source

[wlyonsatl]

It should have been obvious, but it obviously wasn't, that the message I quoted from Upwork has nothing to do with the voice calling/messaging system. It only concerns the written message system.

[gilbert-phyllis]

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Will L wrote:

Phyllis,

Unless Upwork is recording your calls with clients via the Upwork voice call system, the only Upwork system that matters for resolving disputes would be the separate written message system.

As far as I know, the Upwork voice call system does not record calls, though I'd like to  know if it does as that could be useful (and creepy, too).

As it is, I never bother using Upwork's voice call system. Phones and Skype calls work fine, or whatever other system the client prefers (Zoom, etc.). 

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I've never used UW's voice call system. Tried it once and couldn't get it to work. I use email, phone, Skype, Zoom, whatever.

[kevindank]

I echo what others have said,  you are free to communicate in anyway you see necessary as long as you exchange payment via the platform.   I personally prefer using the upwork portal and I have the upwork app installed on my iPhone, this makes it easy to communicate with clients on the go, plus when I am back at my desk I can pull up the messenger as well to refer back to chats we had on the go.

[yitwail]

This apparent in loco parentis warning message rubs me the wrong way for a couple of reasons. First, it seems to directly contradict multiple statements from Upwork staff over the years that contact information can be shared in messaging. Secondly, multiple freelancers have complained of late that messages from clients have contained malware links, yet there's been no official comment that I'm aware of addressing this concern, so stop preaching about "our security systems protect your account from phishing, malware, and scams" unless you can guarantee protection.

[petra_r]

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John K wrote:

This apparent in loco parentis warning message rubs me the wrong way for a couple of reasons. First, it seems to directly contradict multiple statements from Upwork staff over the years that contact information can be shared in messaging. Secondly, multiple freelancers have complained of late that messages from clients have contained malware links, yet there's been no official comment that I'm aware of addressing this concern, so stop preaching about "our security systems protect your account from phishing, malware, and scams" unless you can guarantee protection.

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I doubt it has that much to do with protecting us as much as protecting Upwork's income by clamping down on disintermediation 😉

[gilbert-phyllis]

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Petra R wrote:

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John K wrote:

This apparent in loco parentis warning message rubs me the wrong way for a couple of reasons. First, it seems to directly contradict multiple statements from Upwork staff over the years that contact information can be shared in messaging. Secondly, multiple freelancers have complained of late that messages from clients have contained malware links, yet there's been no official comment that I'm aware of addressing this concern, so stop preaching about "our security systems protect your account from phishing, malware, and scams" unless you can guarantee protection.

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I doubt it has that much to do with protecting us as much as protecting Upwork's income by clamping down on disintermediation 😉

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True. But one thing that can make disintermediation tempting is UW's complete disinterest in fixing issues that make it cumbersome, time-consuming, and annoying to use the platform for in-project communications and document swapping. Not to mention genuine security gaps. For the record, I've never been tempted. But it sort of gives the impression they think we're stupid, when they carry on with such a profound disconnect between their talk and their walk.

[kfarnell]

The warning is making me seriously vexed. It's impossible to work here without alternative methods of communication, especially when Upwork does things such as stripping tracking and live links from files as they did recently. And this message pops up when I put in links to my books on Amazon and similar - things specifically asked for in job postings.

If it advised keeping contact on Upwork or warned against payment off-platform, that's fair.

But: Make sure that your message to this client does not include your contact information.

What happens if a bid does include contact information? 

[petra_r]

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Kim F wrote:

 And this message pops up when I put in links to my books on Amazon and similar - things specifically asked for in job postings.

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...because the stupid system thinks it is a phone number.

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Kim F wrote:

If it advised keeping contact on Upwork or warned against payment off-platform, that's fair.

But: Make sure that your message to this client does not include your contact information.

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Typical poor Upwork wording.

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Kim F wrote:

What happens if a bid does include contact information? 

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Absolutely nothing.

[kfarnell]

I realise the reality but there are two problems here:

1. Those who don't realise the reality are being misinformed and potentially struggling with a system that isn't up to scratch when they could easily resolve issues with a quick call (for example).

More worryingly:

2. At any time and without warning Upwork could move the goalposts to bring reality into line with what's being said. 

[browersr]

It is exceedingly rare that I use the UW Messaging system outside of initial contact and setup. I am sure for some it can be practical but it just doesn't work well over a larger project. Conversations get lost in what amounts to a long single thread and when you start involving other people into the conversation it just adds to the noise. The audio call process just doesn't work. With a few new clients we started with it but it absolutely never worked. Usually one or the other could hear or couldn't connect. For  running a project I much prefer Slack or perhaps even Basecamp. Skype works for those potential clients who want an interview call. I just want UW to help make the introduction and to process payments. That's it. I'm otherwise not running my business on this platform's technology.

[youtube_promo]

Client asked for zoom call as consulting job. Are we allowed to advice a client on a particuler subject on zoom app.

[prestonhunter]

re: "Client asked for zoom call as consulting job. Are we allowed to advice a client on a particuler subject on zoom app."

Yes.