Re: Annoyed with recent quality of Upwork - Page 2

plantostart · ‎01-24-2023

I've had mostly long-term clients here on Upwork; 100% job success score, top rated, etc....all viable clients that immediately went from invite to proposal to interview to hire within a week. I've paid Upwork at least $20K in income fees the past year alone, possibly more. All my clients are 5 stars.

Within the past 6 months, I don't what the issue is- but the number of invites and quality of clients have signficantly decreased. I'm to the point where I'm easily having to send 50 proposals and do 15 interviews with no results. Or "limited results" where the client wants to hire, but can't actually afford rates. Additionally, I've seen far too many new "knowledge suckers"- ie: startups under the impression they can solicit random strategies and ideas from multiple people for free in a one-hour "interview" call. As though that actually works for a real company? Laughable. I don't see any eventual hires on these contract postings either.

Another issue- prospective clients are allowed to privately DM me; without posting a job, and without me being able to view/vet their company. Previously this worked in my favor as they hadn't yet solicited others, so I've continued to respond; but with the new lack of quality clients, it is resulting in pure ludacris.

After recently ending a large contract, I turned on my "availability badge" (which costs money); yet can't control what clients this is advertised to. Odd considering I work in B2B digital marketing, and targeting is always our number one concern in producing viable pipeline.

Considering the connect & new bidding fees, percentage of my income being taken, and recent decrease in quality; honestly I can't see what the value proposition here is anymore. This is business- the only value prop is when a platform is saving you money or time (because time equals money regardless), when x-y=z. I could prospect on my own with less time then what I spend here....with much better targeting then these new algorithims and/or lack of client vetting.

Side note: this is a rant. There is no technical solution or problem solving to be had from my side. What I am basically annoyed about, is I invested those fees in order to build a steady, viable dealflow of clients. And yet that is essentially worthless now because of Upwork's own poor strategies.

crart · ‎10-28-2023

You'll never get it. No point in discussion with an ignorant.

And I'm really missing a "lol" reaction to the forum posts 😂

calado-marco · ‎10-30-2023

"within a few years AI will be reached and the IQ will be 1,000+"

Although, you have to admit, that even with a 1000+ IQ the best that AI could get in creativity would be the last season of Game of Thrones!😄

williamtcooper · ‎10-30-2023

Updated creativity is not that bad anymore.

View the new DALL-3 for AI graphic generation that is now part of ChatGPT4.

It's very impressive.

the-right-writer · ‎10-30-2023

It has all the unresolved legal and ethical issues.

calado-marco · ‎10-30-2023

Will try that, but i doubt that (besides graphics) they can beat the Pythons. "Lovely Spam! Wonderful Spam!, Spam, Spam, Spam"

williamtcooper · ‎10-30-2023

I have completed a few hundred Upwork client engagements this year and my clients LOVE the generative AI because it beats the top 1% of expert freelancers not using the tools to polish the work and speed the process.

calado-marco · ‎10-31-2023

I don't doubt that! And that's awesome! The thing for me is that the key word is "You"; You know how to use the tolls. You were the one giving the directions to the AI. You have the expertise to review the first AI results. Without You doing and knowing all of that, the client probably or most certantly would ate the final work.

I'm not against the use of AI, i'm just pointing that there is, from all that i've read on this post, an unjustified fear of AI, and also that human knowledge will always be required with or without AI, specially on creative works.

williamtcooper · ‎10-31-2023

You are absolutely right.

It takes the combination of the expert with the AI to do amazing things.

The AI by itself is still around an entry to intermediate level.

the-right-writer · ‎10-31-2023

I just want some valid answers for the poor people using the chatbots. Let's be clear - ChatGPT et al. are not AI. They are predictive language. The difference between Jasper and AI is a giant abyss.

calado-marco · ‎10-31-2023

Sure Jeanne, that's understood. We all know, like you said, the abyss between a true AI and an "analitic" tool like ChatGPT or Jasper.

The use of "AI" here is just a semantic reduction.

As to the "poor people" using chatbots, i would need some more clarification in order to understand your statment.

Do you mean "poor" economically? If they have acess to chatbots, they have the same chances as any other freelancer here.

If you mean "poor" on the expertise level, then, just like me, they are intellectually lazy to learn new skills.

If you are just being sarcastic, then they are cheaters, the kind of people that bring down online work platforms like UW, and so: screw them. Hope they never get work here again!

the-right-writer · ‎10-31-2023

Perhaps your clients do, although we have no way of verifying that statement.

However, it amazes me that you think you are an expert in all fields, including AI. Whether you like it or not, there are fields where your chatbots are not allowed, the client will blacklist you, and you will never work in the field again.

The real AI, does not steal, and is not in court, and the people who use it understand why informed consent, and compensation must be discussed, or it's theft. There are real AI experts who address the chatbots, and do it very well. Too bad, no one on Upwork is capable of addressing the issues like a real AI expert.

lizablau · ‎10-30-2023

Or Python's "The Ministry of Silly Walks." The list goes on and on.

calado-marco · ‎10-31-2023

One of my favorites is "confuse-a -cat". And now almost 50 years later we have "pet psicologists"... Visionaries!!!

crart · ‎10-31-2023

noun: creativity

the use of imagination or original ideas to create something; inventiveness.

I wouldn't put "creativity" and "AI" in one sentence. AI is a machine algorithm and cannot invent anything as it uses only stuff already existent. Creativity requires human mind and imagination.

williamtcooper · ‎10-31-2023

Tell that to companies who have created original products using AI.

Does AI scare you?

crart · ‎11-01-2023

AI does not scare me. What scares me or rather worries me, is people blind to any points of view and arguments that do not go in line with their own so they turn to passive-aggressive behavior.

As I see you are that kind of person I will leave you to your own as I have no interest in discussing serious matters with a limited mind 😉

the-right-writer · ‎10-27-2023

This is sad. I don't know when I have seen someone so desperate for attention.

crart · ‎10-27-2023

William T C wrote:
Lisa,

I agree nobody wants a freelancer that gets content without using these AI tools properly.

I have had 200+ client engagements this year and everyone of them have highly requested my artificial intelligence expertise especially for increasing their company sales.

There is very little competition for freelancers that use the AI generation tools properly.

It has amazed me the number of freelancers that say don't use AI generation tools. When someone makes that statement, it means they don't know how to properly use the tools.

Others bring up copyright issues; again not understanding how to properly use the tools.

First off, your first statement is not true, there are still many people that prefer real human input rather than machine and they clearly state they need real humans to perform the work from start to finish, without AI whatsoever.

Second - "artificial intelligence expertise" is just a nice name for "I know how to feed chatbot". Not a skill.

Third - there is really no competition in AI machine usage because everyone can basically do the same. AI is a bot, a machine that replaces human brain way too much. I am personally very happy not to step into this pit.

"When someone makes that statement, it means they don't know how to properly use the tools." - wrong assumption, I don't use AI because it has no meaning and has no proper regulation. A lot of content is stolen to "teach" AI bots and then mutated to resemble originality. There is nothing worthy in anything created with the use of AI.

"Others bring up copyright issues; again not understanding how to properly use the tools." - actually there are many valid reasons for which educated people are against AI. If you ever had your work stolen and then found it mutated by some low level "artist" to "create" their "artwork" with the use of AI bot, and then sold as a for example book cover, you would know. The same goes for endless written texts used by AI bots without consent and without compensation to the original author. This whole AI madness heavily relies on stupidity of people that think that what's on the internet, belongs to everyone. That is simply not true.

williamtcooper · ‎10-27-2023

Do you have a 155+ IQ?

the-right-writer · ‎10-27-2023

🤣🤣🤣

elisa_b · ‎10-27-2023

williamtcooper · ‎10-27-2023

Why do you think because ChatGPT4 has a 155+ IQ that it's arrogant?

elisa_b · ‎10-28-2023

Arrogance is dismissing other people's opinions because they haven't been "successful" (i.e. they did not earn over a million dollars here).

Arrogance is provoking people with nonsense questions, hinting their IQ is not high enough to make their own business decisions.

Arrogance is dismissing serious problems by attacking people personally instead.

Arrogance is presuming to know every existing field of work, taking for granted that AI will allow everybody to work better, and hinting that people who do not embrace AI are just fools.

I would like to see more respect in this and other threads.

the-right-writer · ‎11-03-2023

There are many types of IQ tests. Since the only true intelligence tests are spatial in nature, not knoweldge based, how is ChatGPT able to do that? It can't.

If my intelligence is based on everything written or coded or created that I have stolen, my IQ would be a lot higher than 155.

The chatbotGPT is incapable of having an IQ. It no more has an "IQ" in the real term, than a stolen article used on Upwork.

calado-marco · ‎10-27-2023

Wow! From now on i'll call you Master Carpenter: you sure know how to bang a nail...

crart · ‎10-28-2023

🤣🤣🤣🤣

the-right-writer · ‎10-27-2023

Part of the issue is mixing the chatbots with AI. AI is a huge range of programs that do not include the chatbots, no matter how much Open AI or the followers pretend it is. It is marketing. Something new to get the consumers to buy, so of course they tell everyone they must have it.

I work with real AI, and the ones demanding everyone use the chatbots wouldn't know it if they saw it.

The chatbots, ChatGPT et al. are not AI. They are predictive language. That means, it uses material from real humans to predict what "should" go next. ChatGPT is a two decades old chatbot, pulled from the digital dumpster and released as the new must-have. It is not AI.

Real AI, is amazing. The medical and science fields have made some greats strides, in some areas, and the potential is enormous. However, you can't just go to a program and steal other's work to start your own project. Previous material must be located, the author's contacted, compensation is either set in place, or an agreement made for free use. No one would just start using private work. It's theft, and will also get you blacklisted, and collegiate and federal funding disappears.

crart · ‎10-28-2023

Fully agree. Though it is not only chatbot, in my field there are engines combining images and people call it art... and present as their own creation to the clients and often clients ask for "AI artist" like wtf is that even.

But for the simplicity I just call AI - AI. Years ago I was in a group of people working on real AI engine helping early school kids learn basics of art and art history, the work was inspiring and promising but with the boom of, as you call them right, predictive engines, our project was closed. It had little to do with stitching things together but seems what people are only able to understand today is exactly this, how to stitch together pieces of stolen content to make somewhat legit looking Frankenstein and sell it. See, most people prefer easy solutions to non-existant problems.

the-right-writer · ‎10-27-2023

We are still waiting for you to address the very real issues with chatbots. Since you do not work with real AI, it is amazing to me, you would lead freelancers down a path to plagiarism, lack of ownership and other issues. Real AI experts are able to speak about these issues, admit they are a serious, legal problem, and not act as if everyone is attacking AI.

There is very little competition for freelancers that use the AI generation tools properly.

Wow, you have no respect for anyone unless they parrot your "wisdom" on the chatbots. You are hardly the only one who knows how to use prompts and the tweaks that make the system work better. It is still using coding, writing, and anything else they feed into it, that was taken without acknowledgment, consent, payment or compensation.

If I am such a fool, and I just don't understand AI, despite working in the field for over a decade, then certainly, you should be able to explain to us simpletons, how the chatbots have addressed all of these legal issues.

lizablau · ‎10-27-2023

It's not about learning to use AI tools properly -- what you refuse to understand is that most leading businesses do NOT want a freelancer using AI to create sales copy and other content.

I've never had one client on or off Upwork request AI-written content. In fact, I get requests to rewrite generic AI content because they tried using it, and realized it sucks. It's usually cringe-inducing.

But I do hope you find yourself a nice robot girl to settle down with.

lysis10 · ‎10-26-2023

Lisa B wrote:
The majority of business owners who contact me stress they don't want ANY AI written content.

ha I put it as a question and answer on my consultation page so I could get rid of that question from the jump.

d_samuel_udokpok · ‎01-25-2023

Are you finding it difficult to believe that Upwork committed a terrible error by introducing policies that have affected freelancers as well as clients? I remember vividly when Upwork brought a test version of proposal bidding, 70% of Upwork freelancers were against it; still, Upwork went ahead and implemented that. I agree with the writer of this thread. Quality clients are reducing every day on Upwork. That's not due to whatever AI or World Economy or whatever you're talking about rather Upwork is contributing to it. I've had clients complaining about the Upwork bidding system and how it's not helping them to higher quality freelancers.

Secondly, clients who aren't ready to hire for a specific job shouldn't post jobs thereby making freelancers waste their connects. I've seen verified clients posting 10 jobs without any hire. Some clients would interview 100 freelancers in the process, stealing freelancers' ideas. Is this still due to World Economy or AI?

Upwork should revert back to the old system. Of course, I know they won't because they're making money from connects. How would you justify the top 3 proposals spending over 1500 on connects alone? I screenshotted that very job post. Top 1 bidding 600+ connects, the top 2 was 500+ and the top 3 was 300+. This is insane.

Everything is wrong with the new Upwork marketplace. Clients are leaving the platform. Upwork doesn't listen to freelancers. They'll just wake up one day and implement policies. Freelancing is a business and those that rely on Upwork are paying heavily. Thank God for side hustle 😁 😀 😁 😀😁 😀 😁 😀

williamtcooper · ‎01-25-2023

David,

Proposal bidding has had no negative or positive affects on my ability to obtain projects on Upwork. I have completed 40+ projects since November. However, when Upwork changes the process, I adjust my strategy. I have written several posts on how to adjust that obviously work. Just modify to what works in January 2023. Thanks!

cjhoward428 · ‎01-26-2023

I think they might go back to the old format. This is likely reducing what they make in service fees. They will definitely see a big drop, I am very sure many top earning freelancers will go elsewhere or work on Upwork less.

joansands · ‎11-03-2023

In the last couple of years, Upwork's share price has gone from about $60 to $11. That fact does not appear to have an effect upon the powers that be at Upwork.

the-right-writer · ‎01-25-2023

Just the flood of demands/begging for jobs is enough to cause freelancers to flee. Why in &$(@#@! Didn't they do something, so we could control our own messages. Just turn the darn thing off and my colleagues or friends can find me other ways.

c18f1786 · ‎01-25-2023

Interesting. I've seen some negative comments about the 'free-for-all' messaging functionality, but I've actually got a couple of good clients through that route (one of whom has been a regular client for several months).

If you receive a lot of unsolicited messages, I guess it would get annoying pretty quickly, but I've found they're often more relevant than invites.

the-right-writer · ‎01-26-2023

It's either people wanting me to give them a job or get them a job. The client's messages are great, but buried.

atlinguist · ‎01-26-2023

I agree that DM is a pretty awful feature, particularly on a "marketplace" platform focused on agencies. I know how time-consuming it can be to chat with all and sundry because I get these messages in my non-platform business too, and it's easy to tell when these messages are not based on genuine interest. An easy way to block timewasters in the DM is to refer them to the two "pillars" on Upwork -- (1) the project catalogue and (2) the job posts. Plenty of choices there.

b711df64 · ‎10-27-2023

I agree :hundred_points: with you on the fact that Upwork is literally pushing quality clients away, that proposal boosting feature is a game killer for Upwork and all of us, and if they keep going like this, Upwork will become a joke in no time.

It wasn't supposed to be a game of luck, it was meant to be a game of skill and experience.