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bussw83
Community Member

Applying to jobs with 50++ proposals?

I have a debate going on with a person teaching how to be successful on Upwork (this person has no experience as a freelancer just as a "client" allegedly) He is advising rookies to apply to jobs with 50+ proposals. I told him that is better to avoid jobs with more than 20 proposals especially if you are a new freelancer.

 

I feel that is a waste of connects, especially now that we will be charged. What do you all think? 

44 REPLIES 44
mwiggenhorn
Community Member

Well, in my specialty 5 or 6 proposals is pretty high.  I would never apply to anything with that many proposals.  Just my take on it...

lysis10
Community Member

Does this person have the initials DM?

bussw83
Community Member

His youtube is  **Edited for Community Guidelines** and the video name  

"Speed Is Not Value - Should You Apply to Upwork Gigs with Lots of Proposals?"

lysis10
Community Member


Tanya H wrote:

His youtube is  **Edited for Community Guidelines** and the video name  

"Speed Is Not Value - Should You Apply to Upwork Gigs with Lots of Proposals?"


99% of these people make little to no money on Upwork and rehash random poop to prey on noobs who don't know any better.

tlbp
Community Member

I doubt that strategy would work for most freelancers new to Upwork. The exception would be for someone with real-world experience and a profile the demonstrated their expertise. 50 proposals from people who write hasty proposals and aren't suited for the job aren't really proposals from competitors--they are just wasting the client's time.

 

I don't think I've ever applied to a gig that already had 50 proposals. However, I have applied to gigs that have been open a few days and have many proposals. If you can offer genuine value and pitch your skills well, then you may be the freelancer that the client was waiting for. 

If you are still viewing connects as something to be held and not wasted, then your best strategy may be to develop a unique value proposition. Then, only pitch for gigs where your UVP is a definite match. 


versailles
Community Member


Tanya H wrote:

I have a debate going on with a person teaching how to be successful on Upwork (this person has no experience as a freelancer just as a "client" allegedly)


I just hope you're not paying this scammer for his **bleep**ty advice.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless

Lol absolutely not 😉

anima9
Community Member

It's not that it's not worth it, but the odds are significantly smaller. I'm saying this because I did something like that last year and I was at least interviewed almost immediately.

Take my opinion with a grain of salt. I haven't applied for any job in the last 6 months and have been living off invites.
sinisterlex
Community Member

There is no debate.

I gave my opinion that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent because clients look at all proposals. I stated that I regularly earn gigs even when there are 50+ proposals and it happens because I take my time, craft a thoughtful proposal and give clients a reason to choose me over other people. I also stated that as a client I look at every proposal in order to find the best freelancer for my jobs.

After that you claimed that there is no point sending proposals to gigs with 20+ proposals because you've seen a "pattern" which you can back up with "evidence" based on your "observations" as a freelancer that clients do not look at every proposal and that you can prove it because people on Upwork's forum will back you up (which is not evidence).

 

When I pointed out the flaws in your argument (mainly the fact that you, as a freelancer, cannot possibly know whether or not a client viewed every proposal EVEN IF you can see that they interviewed and hired someone prior to there being 20+ proposals) then you reinforced your position with more flawed logic and mind-reading.

Once it became clear that your position was based on personal convictions rather than on any factual data and once you started making ad hominem attacks (attacks on my personal character) then I muted you from my channel.

Unlike you, I do not hide behind a non-public profile. My profile is linked here despite the fact people constantly steal from it and try to pick it apart because I make videos that have helped a lot of other people. But every once in a while someone comes along who isn't getting results and instead of just trying to see things from a new perspective, they assume that they couldn't possibly be doing things ineffectively. This is called the victim mindset. It's when you keep doing things based on your feelings rather than testing things to see what gets actual results.

And now I hear from people on my channel that when I muted your assinine comments you ran to Upwork's forum to start some kind of witch hunt. That's fine though. I understand that because you posted first others will likely take your position. That's how groups tend to work. However, if you'd like to make more of those comments here we'll continue our "debate" and it will become clear to everyone who reads this why you got banned from my channel.

Notice your last sentence in your OP here.

"I feel that is a waste of connects."

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but your feelings don't change the fact that clients will read every proposal to find the best freelancer and they don't simply stop at 20 just because they've hit a certain number. Just because you "feel" some way about something doesn't make it true. 

Regarding this comment: "(this person has no experience as a freelancer just as a "client" allegedly) "

At no point did I say I have no experience as a freelancer. In fact, my freelance profile is available for anyone to view. Even you, but you refuse to look past your own beliefs to see what actually might be true. Also, that is improper use of the word, "allegedly" since I did not alledge that I only have experience as a client. That is simply a false statement made by you. 

I've been on Upwork since before it was Upwork. Built multiple accounts up to full-time income and helped students and non-students alike go from $0 to $10k - $20k months. I'm one of the biggest contributors on one of the world's largest entrepreneur forums and I don't only freelance on Upwork.  So yes, I do have experience as a freelancer.

Regarding your comment on "advising rookies" I just make videos on YouTube. Anyone is free to watch them. I started making them for people on a forum and my channel grew from there. You do not have to watch my channel. You do not have to take my advice. In fact, I actively encourage people not to watch when they'd rather let their own limiting beliefs stand in the way of getting results.

"I told him that is better to avoid jobs with more than 20 proposals especially if you are a new freelancer."

You said nothing about "new freelancers" and you couldn't back up your statements about avoiding jobs with 20 proposals with any kind of evidence. I said in order for you to make such statements you would need to:

A) Be a client yourself
B) Speak to clients about this issue

You said that because you've observed 100's of gigs (but not gigs you posted) that you could notice patterns of clients not viewing more than 20+ proposals. So if you'd care to share HOW you noticed this pattern, then be my guest, but hopefully when you share, it doesn't involve your feelings or my personal character being called into question because that's not how factual information works.

On a side note, I DID say it is better to apply sooner when possible. The purpose of the video was to say you shouldn't avoid gigs just because they have a lot of proposals. If you think you are a great fit for a position and you can show the client you're the best, then you SHOULD apply because the client will likely look at your proposal even if there are already a lot of proposals.

It wouldn't make sense not to look at a proposal if you haven't found someone for the gig, and based on my own experience as a client I will look at proposals even after I've hired someone because the person I hired isn't always the right fit. 

Lastly, the basis for my argument that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent (beyond being based on my personal approach to hiring) can be seen in the metaphor of someone picking out the red gummy bears from all the other colors in a bag of gummy bears.

It doesn't matter that there are 1,000's of gummy bears in that bag. You can quickly sort through and find those you are looking for because they have specific traits that set them apart from all the other gummy bears. Therefore you can make quick decisions about whether or not you want that gummy bear just like clients can quickly tell if a freelancer has the traits they're looking for. It doesn't take hours to sort through 50 to 100 proposals when clients know what they want in a freelancer.

@jennifer M - I would invite you to my channel to decide for yourself if what I have to say is worth listening to or is random poop rehashed advice.  Just look up **Edited for Community Guidelines**

@Tonya P - Doubting a strategy will work doesn't change the results for people who apply the strategy. I doubt I can change anyone's mind, so I don't try to. I just share what has worked for me and people can take it or leave it.

 

@Rene K - It's kind of jumping the gun to call someone a scammer based on a forum post that doesn't share the whole story. There are thousands of people between YouTube, Udemy and TheFastlaneForum that have not only found my experience helpful, but have publicly left their thanks for it. I try to share the best information I can based on things that have worked for me, and help people overcome limiting beliefs that tend to hold them back and that doesn't make me a scammer even if others don't share my opinions or experiences.

 

 

 


Lex D wrote:

@jennifer M - I would invite you to my channel to decide for yourself if what I have to say is worth listening to or is random poop rehashed advice.  Just look up **Edited for Community Guidelines**.

@Tonya P - Doubting a strategy will work doesn't change the results for people who apply the strategy. I doubt I can change anyone's mind, so I don't try to. I just share what has worked for me and people can take it or leave it.

 

@Rene K - It's kind of jumping the gun to call someone a scammer based on a forum post that doesn't share the whole story. There are thousands of people between YouTube, Udemy and TheFastlaneForum that have not only found my experience helpful, but have publicly left their thanks for it. I try to share the best information I can based on things that have worked for me, and help people overcome limiting beliefs that tend to hold them back and that doesn't make me a scammer even if others don't share my opinions or experiences.

 

 

 


lmao is this the guy who told you? This guy also had his account suspended after he deleted it and made another one and bragged about it in his videos. He doesn't know what he's talking about either. This guy should be ignored like the other lame "coaches" out there.

Believe what you want, but that isn't what happened.

 

You've misrepresented the situation and did so based on not having the full story but on your personal beliefs and group think from reddit. It also seems you didn't bother reading my other post.

 

It's hard to listen to those who can't even be bothered to look at information to decide for themselves if it is useful or not. I didn't brag about my videos. Only referenced them as evidence that people seem to like what I have to say. That's also why I have the highest rated Udemy freelance courses.

 

People should decide for themselves if they should listen to me or ignore me. However, I would note that I'm not the one sporting the title, "Community Guru" and calling others "lame" which is another form of ad hominem attack.

It's also ironic that we both give away free freelance information, yet you reference me as a coach and don't put yourself in that category. It seems you have some belief that teaching based on experience for free and then offering more at cost to leverage your knowledge is somehow unethical.

Personally, I don't care if people follow me or not. I share information based on my experiences. That's all I can do. If people get results from that or agree with that, then great. If not, oh well. But I don't understand the need to personally attack someone rather than forming a constructive criticism or useful argument. 


Lex D wrote:

Believe what you want, but that isn't what happened.

 


lol you coaches are so funny. So cute and adorable. You gonna take that video down or just pretend like you weren't wrong and let other freelancers think it's ok to delete an account and create a new one?

 

 

No, I won't take that video down. My account is live and well because I already had permission from Upwork prior to deleting my account. That is why my current account exists. You wouldn't know this because you are making assumptions without all of the information.


Lex D wrote:

 

People should decide for themselves if they should listen to me or ignore me.


Sorry, your "one of many" profile(s) says it all. Loud and clear.

 

Yes, that says it all if you only go based on your personal beliefs.

 

It's always so easy to go with the flow. To join the crowd. To jump in on bashing someone.

 

It's harder to stand up for your own experiences and what has worked for you.

 

Tanya, that'll prolly get deleted but these coaches including this sweaty always prey on noobs and this guy is a noob himself. He has private contact details in his profile too, and that's another noob mistake that will get his profile flagged.

 

You are correct that I think being noob and trying to conserve connects is important so 50+ proposals puts you at a disadvantage. If you have connects to throw away and you're making Upwork money, then by all means throw a bid out there, but I agree it's not a good idea for noobs.

 

Proposals are ordered by recommended, so when it comes to something like this, if you aren't in the top 10-20 proposals (and 99% of proposals are trash) you aren't likely to get seen. You are right that when you are new, you need to be more picky. If you're already making money, you probably have connects to spare so why not roll the dice.

bussw83
Community Member


Jennifer M wrote:

Tanya, that'll prolly get deleted but these coaches including this sweaty always prey on noobs and this guy is a noob himself. He has private contact details in his profile too, and that's another noob mistake that will get his profile flagged.

 

You are correct that I think being noob and trying to conserve connects is important so 50+ proposals puts you at a disadvantage. If you have connects to throw away and you're making Upwork money, then by all means throw a bid out there, but I agree it's not a good idea for noobs.

 

Proposals are ordered by recommended, so when it comes to something like this, if you aren't in the top 10-20 proposals (and 99% of proposals are trash) you aren't likely to get seen. You are right that when you are new, you need to be more picky. If you're already making money, you probably have connects to spare so why not roll the dice.



Exactly lol. My comments still there but muted so others cannot see them. I did not know that was possible on youtube. 


Tanya H wrote:

Exactly. Sigh it's a shame that we cannot post images here.


If you don't quote the message you're answering to, it makes it difficult to follow the conversation.

-----------
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light"   —William Ashbless


Rene K wrote:

Tanya H wrote:

Exactly. Sigh it's a shame that we cannot post images here.


If you don't quote the message you're answering to, it makes it difficult to follow the conversation.


Oh I thought that was included when you responded to a person. I will do it later when I have some time


Lex D wrote:

There is no debate.

I gave my opinion that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent because clients look at all proposals. I stated that I regularly earn gigs even when there are 50+ proposals and it happens because I take my time, craft a thoughtful proposal and give clients a reason to choose me over other people. I also stated that as a client I look at every proposal in order to find the best freelancer for my jobs.

After that you claimed that there is no point sending proposals to gigs with 20+ proposals because you've seen a "pattern" which you can back up with "evidence" based on your "observations" as a freelancer that clients do not look at every proposal and that you can prove it because people on Upwork's forum will back you up (which is not evidence).

 

When I pointed out the flaws in your argument (mainly the fact that you, as a freelancer, cannot possibly know whether or not a client viewed every proposal EVEN IF you can see that they interviewed and hired someone prior to there being 20+ proposals) then you reinforced your position with more flawed logic and mind-reading.

Once it became clear that your position was based on personal convictions rather than on any factual data and once you started making ad hominem attacks (attacks on my personal character) then I muted you from my channel.

Unlike you, I do not hide behind a non-public profile. My profile is linked here despite the fact people constantly steal from it and try to pick it apart because I make videos that have helped a lot of other people. But every once in a while someone comes along who isn't getting results and instead of just trying to see things from a new perspective, they assume that they couldn't possibly be doing things ineffectively. This is called the victim mindset. It's when you keep doing things based on your feelings rather than testing things to see what gets actual results.

And now I hear from people on my channel that when I muted your assinine comments you ran to Upwork's forum to start some kind of witch hunt. That's fine though. I understand that because you posted first others will likely take your position. That's how groups tend to work. However, if you'd like to make more of those comments here we'll continue our "debate" and it will become clear to everyone who reads this why you got banned from my channel.

Notice your last sentence in your OP here.

"I feel that is a waste of connects."

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but your feelings don't change the fact that clients will read every proposal to find the best freelancer and they don't simply stop at 20 just because they've hit a certain number. Just because you "feel" some way about something doesn't make it true. 

Regarding this comment: "(this person has no experience as a freelancer just as a "client" allegedly) "

At no point did I say I have no experience as a freelancer. In fact, my freelance profile is available for anyone to view. Even you, but you refuse to look past your own beliefs to see what actually might be true. Also, that is improper use of the word, "allegedly" since I did not alledge that I only have experience as a client. That is simply a false statement made by you. 

I've been on Upwork since before it was Upwork. Built multiple accounts up to full-time income and helped students and non-students alike go from $0 to $10k - $20k months. I'm one of the biggest contributors on one of the world's largest entrepreneur forums and I don't only freelance on Upwork.  So yes, I do have experience as a freelancer.

Regarding your comment on "advising rookies" I just make videos on YouTube. Anyone is free to watch them. I started making them for people on a forum and my channel grew from there. You do not have to watch my channel. You do not have to take my advice. In fact, I actively encourage people not to watch when they'd rather let their own limiting beliefs stand in the way of getting results.

"I told him that is better to avoid jobs with more than 20 proposals especially if you are a new freelancer."

You said nothing about "new freelancers" and you couldn't back up your statements about avoiding jobs with 20 proposals with any kind of evidence. I said in order for you to make such statements you would need to:

A) Be a client yourself
B) Speak to clients about this issue

You said that because you've observed 100's of gigs (but not gigs you posted) that you could notice patterns of clients not viewing more than 20+ proposals. So if you'd care to share HOW you noticed this pattern, then be my guest, but hopefully when you share, it doesn't involve your feelings or my personal character being called into question because that's not how factual information works.

On a side note, I DID say it is better to apply sooner when possible. The purpose of the video was to say you shouldn't avoid gigs just because they have a lot of proposals. If you think you are a great fit for a position and you can show the client you're the best, then you SHOULD apply because the client will likely look at your proposal even if there are already a lot of proposals.

It wouldn't make sense not to look at a proposal if you haven't found someone for the gig, and based on my own experience as a client I will look at proposals even after I've hired someone because the person I hired isn't always the right fit. 

Lastly, the basis for my argument that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent (beyond being based on my personal approach to hiring) can be seen in the metaphor of someone picking out the red gummy bears from all the other colors in a bag of gummy bears.

It doesn't matter that there are 1,000's of gummy bears in that bag. You can quickly sort through and find those you are looking for because they have specific traits that set them apart from all the other gummy bears. Therefore you can make quick decisions about whether or not you want that gummy bear just like clients can quickly tell if a freelancer has the traits they're looking for. It doesn't take hours to sort through 50 to 100 proposals when clients know what they want in a freelancer.



Lol and how I am hiding if my profile is here you can see all the info and do a filtered search on the main upwork platform?... I have been working here since this was Odesk as well. I did back up what I said and I even told you to have common sense and talk with other freelancers.

 

I did not say that you said that you were not a freelancer, that was my opinion based on the terrible advice you are giving but if you are really a freelancer then is even worst.

 

I did not know that now that you muted me since I can still see my comments. 

 

You wrote a lot of foolishness that is not worthed to be addressed I will add the evidence next...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Lex D wrote:

There is no debate.

I gave my opinion that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent because clients look at all proposals. I stated that I regularly earn gigs even when there are 50+ proposals and it happens because I take my time, craft a thoughtful proposal and give clients a reason to choose me over other people. I also stated that as a client I look at every proposal in order to find the best freelancer for my jobs.

After that you claimed that there is no point sending proposals to gigs with 20+ proposals because you've seen a "pattern" which you can back up with "evidence" based on your "observations" as a freelancer that clients do not look at every proposal and that you can prove it because people on Upwork's forum will back you up (which is not evidence).

 

When I pointed out the flaws in your argument (mainly the fact that you, as a freelancer, cannot possibly know whether or not a client viewed every proposal EVEN IF you can see that they interviewed and hired someone prior to there being 20+ proposals) then you reinforced your position with more flawed logic and mind-reading.

Once it became clear that your position was based on personal convictions rather than on any factual data and once you started making ad hominem attacks (attacks on my personal character) then I muted you from my channel.

Unlike you, I do not hide behind a non-public profile. My profile is linked here despite the fact people constantly steal from it and try to pick it apart because I make videos that have helped a lot of other people. But every once in a while someone comes along who isn't getting results and instead of just trying to see things from a new perspective, they assume that they couldn't possibly be doing things ineffectively. This is called the victim mindset. It's when you keep doing things based on your feelings rather than testing things to see what gets actual results.

And now I hear from people on my channel that when I muted your assinine comments you ran to Upwork's forum to start some kind of witch hunt. That's fine though. I understand that because you posted first others will likely take your position. That's how groups tend to work. However, if you'd like to make more of those comments here we'll continue our "debate" and it will become clear to everyone who reads this why you got banned from my channel.

Notice your last sentence in your OP here.

"I feel that is a waste of connects."

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but your feelings don't change the fact that clients will read every proposal to find the best freelancer and they don't simply stop at 20 just because they've hit a certain number. Just because you "feel" some way about something doesn't make it true. 

Regarding this comment: "(this person has no experience as a freelancer just as a "client" allegedly) "

At no point did I say I have no experience as a freelancer. In fact, my freelance profile is available for anyone to view. Even you, but you refuse to look past your own beliefs to see what actually might be true. Also, that is improper use of the word, "allegedly" since I did not alledge that I only have experience as a client. That is simply a false statement made by you. 

I've been on Upwork since before it was Upwork. Built multiple accounts up to full-time income and helped students and non-students alike go from $0 to $10k - $20k months. I'm one of the biggest contributors on one of the world's largest entrepreneur forums and I don't only freelance on Upwork.  So yes, I do have experience as a freelancer.

Regarding your comment on "advising rookies" I just make videos on YouTube. Anyone is free to watch them. I started making them for people on a forum and my channel grew from there. You do not have to watch my channel. You do not have to take my advice. In fact, I actively encourage people not to watch when they'd rather let their own limiting beliefs stand in the way of getting results.

"I told him that is better to avoid jobs with more than 20 proposals especially if you are a new freelancer."

You said nothing about "new freelancers" and you couldn't back up your statements about avoiding jobs with 20 proposals with any kind of evidence. I said in order for you to make such statements you would need to:

A) Be a client yourself
B) Speak to clients about this issue

You said that because you've observed 100's of gigs (but not gigs you posted) that you could notice patterns of clients not viewing more than 20+ proposals. So if you'd care to share HOW you noticed this pattern, then be my guest, but hopefully when you share, it doesn't involve your feelings or my personal character being called into question because that's not how factual information works.

On a side note, I DID say it is better to apply sooner when possible. The purpose of the video was to say you shouldn't avoid gigs just because they have a lot of proposals. If you think you are a great fit for a position and you can show the client you're the best, then you SHOULD apply because the client will likely look at your proposal even if there are already a lot of proposals.

It wouldn't make sense not to look at a proposal if you haven't found someone for the gig, and based on my own experience as a client I will look at proposals even after I've hired someone because the person I hired isn't always the right fit. 

Lastly, the basis for my argument that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent (beyond being based on my personal approach to hiring) can be seen in the metaphor of someone picking out the red gummy bears from all the other colors in a bag of gummy bears.

It doesn't matter that there are 1,000's of gummy bears in that bag. You can quickly sort through and find those you are looking for because they have specific traits that set them apart from all the other gummy bears. Therefore you can make quick decisions about whether or not you want that gummy bear just like clients can quickly tell if a freelancer has the traits they're looking for. It doesn't take hours to sort through 50 to 100 proposals when clients know what they want in a freelancer.



Ok so you are copywriter, let's see how many jobs with more than 20+  proposals we can find:

**Edited for Community Guidelines** 

Edit: images blocked again just search writer jobs

So on how many jobs with 20++/50++ proposals have you applied to? Exactly 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Now let's see this job around 20 proposals that will be 50++ and a few days (and I will be back when this job has 50++ proposals to prove my point.

 

As you can see this person already choose whom he/she will interview among the first people he saw that he liked...

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

We can see this pattern over and over again and if you add trial and error you find out what works best.

As I said you don't know what you are talking about, you are milking coins from Rockies based merely on theories...as you can see all agree here on that it will lower your chances...

 

You got emotional and defensive but the proof is here and I can add more. As I told you I felt bad for you and I did not want to humiliate you on your channel.

 

As I told you before on competitive areas (the ones who are overcrowded) you have to be seen as soon as possible.  You need to be strategic, logic and smart

 

One more thing:

"It doesn't matter that there are 1,000's of gummy bears in that bag. You can quickly sort through "

My point precisely, they sort out within the first proposals the see, this is why normally these crowded jobs have people being interviewed by the time they have 10-20 proposals. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Lex D wrote:


At no point did I say I have no experience as a freelancer. In fact, my freelance profile is available for anyone to view. Even you, but you refuse to look past your own beliefs to see what actually might be true. Also, that is improper use of the word, "allegedly" since I did not alledge that I only have experience as a client. That is simply a false statement made by you. 


As far as I can see the profile is set to private. 😞

________________________
Freelancing is a gamble - To win you need skill, luck and a strategy


Eve L wrote:

Lex D wrote:


At no point did I say I have no experience as a freelancer. In fact, my freelance profile is available for anyone to view. Even you, but you refuse to look past your own beliefs to see what actually might be true. Also, that is improper use of the word, "allegedly" since I did not alledge that I only have experience as a client. That is simply a false statement made by you. 


As far as I can see the profile is set to private. 😞


Looks like it wasn't earlier. Either he chickened out and hid it or Upwork did after noting the violations referenced in this thread.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

But really I am confused why he doesn't take down the video of him bragging about deleting his account and creating a new one. He got his account back because he makes money, but for new freelancers they will just get a permaban. Really bad and pathetic that he won't delete it to save someone from a surprise suspension but instead just wants to be "right."

Now his profile is "no longer available." Smiley Tongue

________________________
Freelancing is a gamble - To win you need skill, luck and a strategy


Jennifer M wrote:

But really I am confused why he doesn't take down the video of him bragging about deleting his account and creating a new one. He got his account back because he makes money, but for new freelancers they will just get a permaban. Really bad and pathetic that he won't delete it to save someone from a surprise suspension but instead just wants to be "right."


He claimed here that he had Upwork's permission in advance--hard to see why he wouldn't just say that in the video with a "don't try this at home" type warning.


Tiffany S wrote:


He claimed here that he had Upwork's permission in advance--hard to see why he wouldn't just say that in the video with a "don't try this at home" type warning.


I watched the video and his "permission" was contacting CS to delete the account for him.


Lex D wrote:


I gave my opinion that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent because clients look at all proposals. 

Are you suggesting that all or the vast majority of clients look at all proposals? Do you have data to support that other than the fact that you do so yourself? You've invalidated OP's opinion later in your post because it's based only on her experience, so...how is your claim different/better supported?

Unlike you, I do not hide behind a non-public profile. My profile is linked here despite the fact people constantly steal from it and try to pick it apart because I make videos that have helped a lot of other people.

 

Hm. I tried to look at your profile and got a page that said it was set to private.

 

It also says that you bill $135/hour, which strongly suggests that your experience isn't especially meaningful to the low-end, less experienced freelancers typically seeking help to improve their success rates here.

 

Like you, I bid on jobs I'm interested in regardless of the number of proposals...because I know that my skills and credentials far outstrip the vast majority of my competitors, and if the client is looking for a high-end freelancer, chances are good that I'll stand out regardless of the number of other proposals. At $135/hour, the same is likely true for you. Not so much for a writer with one year of generalist experience who has 50,000 true competitors on Upwork. 

 


Tiffany S wrote:

Lex D wrote:


I gave my opinion that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent because clients look at all proposals. 

Are you suggesting that all or the vast majority of clients look at all proposals? Do you have data to support that other than the fact that you do so yourself? You've invalidated OP's opinion later in your post because it's based only on her experience, so...how is your claim different/better supported?

Unlike you, I do not hide behind a non-public profile. My profile is linked here despite the fact people constantly steal from it and try to pick it apart because I make videos that have helped a lot of other people.

 

Hm. I tried to look at your profile and got a page that said it was set to private.

 

It also says that you bill $135/hour, which strongly suggests that your experience isn't especially meaningful to the low-end, less experienced freelancers typically seeking help to improve their success rates here.

 

Like you, I bid on jobs I'm interested in regardless of the number of proposals...because I know that my skills and credentials far outstrip the vast majority of my competitors, and if the client is looking for a high-end freelancer, chances are good that I'll stand out regardless of the number of other proposals. At $135/hour, the same is likely true for you. Not so much for a writer with one year of generalist experience who has 50,000 true competitors on Upwork. 

 


Exactly. This is what happens when you use rhetoric but forget to add logic. 


Lex D wrote:

There is no debate.

I gave my opinion that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent because clients look at all proposals...
After that you claimed that there is no point sending proposals to gigs with 20+ proposals because you've seen a "pattern" which you can back up with "evidence" based on your "observations" as a freelancer that clients do not look at every proposal and that you can prove it because people on Upwork's forum will back you up (which is not evidence).

 

When I pointed out the flaws in your argument (mainly the fact that you, as a freelancer, cannot possibly know whether or not a client viewed every proposal EVEN IF you can see that they interviewed and hired someone prior to there being 20+ proposals)...


Lex, I'm wondering how you can state for a fact that clients look at ALL proposals? I've hired through other online platforms (Elance, when it was still around) and I definitely didn't read all of the proposals, only the first 20 or so; sometimes not even that. Once you find someone who fits your needs and budget, why continue reading? And as a freelancer  - with almost 19 years of experience on Elance and Upwork - my observations concur with Tanya's. I know that observations aren't facts, but I wonder why you think that your own observations are valid while others' are not? What evidence do you have? I'm genuinely curious.



Christine A wrote:

Lex D wrote:

There is no debate.

I gave my opinion that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent because clients look at all proposals...
After that you claimed that there is no point sending proposals to gigs with 20+ proposals because you've seen a "pattern" which you can back up with "evidence" based on your "observations" as a freelancer that clients do not look at every proposal and that you can prove it because people on Upwork's forum will back you up (which is not evidence).

 

When I pointed out the flaws in your argument (mainly the fact that you, as a freelancer, cannot possibly know whether or not a client viewed every proposal EVEN IF you can see that they interviewed and hired someone prior to there being 20+ proposals)...


Lex, I'm wondering how you can state for a fact that clients look at ALL proposals? I've hired through other online platforms (Elance, when it was still around) and I definitely didn't read all of the proposals, only the first 20 or so; sometimes not even that. Once you find someone who fits your needs and budget, why continue reading? And as a freelancer  - with almost 19 years of experience on Elance and Upwork - my observations concur with Tanya's. I know that observations aren't facts, but I wonder why you think that your own observations are valid while others' are not? What evidence do you have? I'm genuinely curious.


Exactly, logic 101

kat303
Community Member

Jobs with 50+ proposals doesn't mean that the client has 51 proposals. On this site, there is no way of telling how many proposals were actually submitted. There's another site, not at all as big and popular as this site, and it actually shows how many proposals were submitted.

 

Just speaking for the Admin section, of this other freelancing site, I have seen jobs with OVER 200 proposals. Some even nearing 300. I'm sure, (yet I have no concrete evidence) that this site, when it shows 50+ proposals it may well be over 300. 

 

On this site, speaking in the Admin section the jobs that attract so many proposals are repetitive no experience jobs, such as typing.  Jobs that you really don't need any special skills for. Jobs anyone can do. Jobs that require special skills and expertise usually don't get that many responses. 

 

IMO if you are new, with no special skills and are looking for those types of no special skill jobs, you are competing against 100's of other newbies no special skill freelancers. And your chances of getting picked are better if you're in the first 10 proposal bunch. Otherwise it's like picking someone out of a hat and you might be better off buying a lottery ticket and winning something. 

 

bussw83
Community Member


Kathy T wrote:

Jobs with 50+ proposals doesn't mean that the client has 51 proposals. On this site, there is no way of telling how many proposals were actually submitted. There's another site, not at all as big and popular as this site, and it actually shows how many proposals were submitted.

 

Just speaking for the Admin section, of this other freelancing site, I have seen jobs with OVER 200 proposals. Some even nearing 300. I'm sure, (yet I have no concrete evidence) that this site, when it shows 50+ proposals it may well be over 300. 

 

On this site, speaking in the Admin section the jobs that attract so many proposals are repetitive no experience jobs, such as typing.  Jobs that you really don't need any special skills for. Jobs anyone can do. Jobs that require special skills and expertise usually don't get that any responses. 

 

IMO if you are new, with no special skills and are looking for those types of no special skill jobs, you are competing against 100's of other newbies no special skill freelancers. And your chances of getting picked are better if you're in the first 10 proposal bunch. Otherwise it's like picking someone out of a hat and you might be better off buying a lottery ticket and winning something. 

 


Exactly this is similar to what I told him on his video. Wow 300? Thank you for saying this it will help many new freelancers 

Tanya,

 

The person who gave you this bad advice has a freelancer profile which breaks so many of the Upwork rules, I'm surprised his (or this) account is still showing. (I'm not sure how many he has had.) 

 

Anyway, trust in your own judgement and come back to the forum if you have any more questions. Don't waste your money or time on dodgy punters who promise to make you rich if you pay for one of their courses. 


Nichola L wrote:

Tanya,

 

The person who gave you this bad advice has a freelancer profile which breaks so many of the Upwork rules, I'm surprised his (or this) account is still showing. (I'm not sure how many he has had.) 

 

Anyway, trust in your own judgement and come back to the forum if you have any more questions. Don't waste your money or time on dodgy punters who promise to make you rich if you pay for one of their courses. 


Thank you, I haven't spent money on him, his video came on my feed, everything I have learned and that helped me to be successful was from this forum and pro freelancers on other platforms 🙂

 

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