I have a debate going on with a person teaching how to be successful on Upwork (this person has no experience as a freelancer just as a "client" allegedly) He is advising rookies to apply to jobs with 50+ proposals. I told him that is better to avoid jobs with more than 20 proposals especially if you are a new freelancer.
I feel that is a waste of connects, especially now that we will be charged. What do you all think?
I doubt that strategy would work for most freelancers new to Upwork. The exception would be for someone with real-world experience and a profile the demonstrated their expertise. 50 proposals from people who write hasty proposals and aren't suited for the job aren't really proposals from competitors--they are just wasting the client's time.
I don't think I've ever applied to a gig that already had 50 proposals. However, I have applied to gigs that have been open a few days and have many proposals. If you can offer genuine value and pitch your skills well, then you may be the freelancer that the client was waiting for.
If you are still viewing connects as something to be held and not wasted, then your best strategy may be to develop a unique value proposition. Then, only pitch for gigs where your UVP is a definite match.
Tanya H wrote:
I have a debate going on with a person teaching how to be successful on Upwork (this person has no experience as a freelancer just as a "client" allegedly)
I just hope you're not paying this scammer for his **bleep**ty advice.
"Where darkness shines like dazzling light" —William Ashbless
Take my opinion with a grain of salt. I haven't applied for any job in the last 6 months and have been living off invites.
There is no debate.
I gave my opinion that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent because clients look at all proposals. I stated that I regularly earn gigs even when there are 50+ proposals and it happens because I take my time, craft a thoughtful proposal and give clients a reason to choose me over other people. I also stated that as a client I look at every proposal in order to find the best freelancer for my jobs.
After that you claimed that there is no point sending proposals to gigs with 20+ proposals because you've seen a "pattern" which you can back up with "evidence" based on your "observations" as a freelancer that clients do not look at every proposal and that you can prove it because people on Upwork's forum will back you up (which is not evidence).
When I pointed out the flaws in your argument (mainly the fact that you, as a freelancer, cannot possibly know whether or not a client viewed every proposal EVEN IF you can see that they interviewed and hired someone prior to there being 20+ proposals) then you reinforced your position with more flawed logic and mind-reading.
Once it became clear that your position was based on personal convictions rather than on any factual data and once you started making ad hominem attacks (attacks on my personal character) then I muted you from my channel.
Unlike you, I do not hide behind a non-public profile. My profile is linked here despite the fact people constantly steal from it and try to pick it apart because I make videos that have helped a lot of other people. But every once in a while someone comes along who isn't getting results and instead of just trying to see things from a new perspective, they assume that they couldn't possibly be doing things ineffectively. This is called the victim mindset. It's when you keep doing things based on your feelings rather than testing things to see what gets actual results.
And now I hear from people on my channel that when I muted your assinine comments you ran to Upwork's forum to start some kind of witch hunt. That's fine though. I understand that because you posted first others will likely take your position. That's how groups tend to work. However, if you'd like to make more of those comments here we'll continue our "debate" and it will become clear to everyone who reads this why you got banned from my channel.
Notice your last sentence in your OP here.
"I feel that is a waste of connects."
Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but your feelings don't change the fact that clients will read every proposal to find the best freelancer and they don't simply stop at 20 just because they've hit a certain number. Just because you "feel" some way about something doesn't make it true.
Regarding this comment: "(this person has no experience as a freelancer just as a "client" allegedly) "
At no point did I say I have no experience as a freelancer. In fact, my freelance profile is available for anyone to view. Even you, but you refuse to look past your own beliefs to see what actually might be true. Also, that is improper use of the word, "allegedly" since I did not alledge that I only have experience as a client. That is simply a false statement made by you.
I've been on Upwork since before it was Upwork. Built multiple accounts up to full-time income and helped students and non-students alike go from $0 to $10k - $20k months. I'm one of the biggest contributors on one of the world's largest entrepreneur forums and I don't only freelance on Upwork. So yes, I do have experience as a freelancer.
Regarding your comment on "advising rookies" I just make videos on YouTube. Anyone is free to watch them. I started making them for people on a forum and my channel grew from there. You do not have to watch my channel. You do not have to take my advice. In fact, I actively encourage people not to watch when they'd rather let their own limiting beliefs stand in the way of getting results.
"I told him that is better to avoid jobs with more than 20 proposals especially if you are a new freelancer."
You said nothing about "new freelancers" and you couldn't back up your statements about avoiding jobs with 20 proposals with any kind of evidence. I said in order for you to make such statements you would need to:
A) Be a client yourself
B) Speak to clients about this issue
You said that because you've observed 100's of gigs (but not gigs you posted) that you could notice patterns of clients not viewing more than 20+ proposals. So if you'd care to share HOW you noticed this pattern, then be my guest, but hopefully when you share, it doesn't involve your feelings or my personal character being called into question because that's not how factual information works.
On a side note, I DID say it is better to apply sooner when possible. The purpose of the video was to say you shouldn't avoid gigs just because they have a lot of proposals. If you think you are a great fit for a position and you can show the client you're the best, then you SHOULD apply because the client will likely look at your proposal even if there are already a lot of proposals.
It wouldn't make sense not to look at a proposal if you haven't found someone for the gig, and based on my own experience as a client I will look at proposals even after I've hired someone because the person I hired isn't always the right fit.
Lastly, the basis for my argument that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent (beyond being based on my personal approach to hiring) can be seen in the metaphor of someone picking out the red gummy bears from all the other colors in a bag of gummy bears.
It doesn't matter that there are 1,000's of gummy bears in that bag. You can quickly sort through and find those you are looking for because they have specific traits that set them apart from all the other gummy bears. Therefore you can make quick decisions about whether or not you want that gummy bear just like clients can quickly tell if a freelancer has the traits they're looking for. It doesn't take hours to sort through 50 to 100 proposals when clients know what they want in a freelancer.