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Applying to jobs with 50++ proposals?

Active Member
Tanya H Member Since: Jul 5, 2012
22 of 45

Rene K wrote:

Tanya H wrote:

Exactly. Sigh it's a shame that we cannot post images here.


If you don't quote the message you're answering to, it makes it difficult to follow the conversation.


Oh I thought that was included when you responded to a person. I will do it later when I have some time

Active Member
Tanya H Member Since: Jul 5, 2012
22 of 45

Lex D wrote:

There is no debate.

I gave my opinion that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent because clients look at all proposals. I stated that I regularly earn gigs even when there are 50+ proposals and it happens because I take my time, craft a thoughtful proposal and give clients a reason to choose me over other people. I also stated that as a client I look at every proposal in order to find the best freelancer for my jobs.

After that you claimed that there is no point sending proposals to gigs with 20+ proposals because you've seen a "pattern" which you can back up with "evidence" based on your "observations" as a freelancer that clients do not look at every proposal and that you can prove it because people on Upwork's forum will back you up (which is not evidence).

 

When I pointed out the flaws in your argument (mainly the fact that you, as a freelancer, cannot possibly know whether or not a client viewed every proposal EVEN IF you can see that they interviewed and hired someone prior to there being 20+ proposals) then you reinforced your position with more flawed logic and mind-reading.

Once it became clear that your position was based on personal convictions rather than on any factual data and once you started making ad hominem attacks (attacks on my personal character) then I muted you from my channel.

Unlike you, I do not hide behind a non-public profile. My profile is linked here despite the fact people constantly steal from it and try to pick it apart because I make videos that have helped a lot of other people. But every once in a while someone comes along who isn't getting results and instead of just trying to see things from a new perspective, they assume that they couldn't possibly be doing things ineffectively. This is called the victim mindset. It's when you keep doing things based on your feelings rather than testing things to see what gets actual results.

And now I hear from people on my channel that when I muted your assinine comments you ran to Upwork's forum to start some kind of witch hunt. That's fine though. I understand that because you posted first others will likely take your position. That's how groups tend to work. However, if you'd like to make more of those comments here we'll continue our "debate" and it will become clear to everyone who reads this why you got banned from my channel.

Notice your last sentence in your OP here.

"I feel that is a waste of connects."

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but your feelings don't change the fact that clients will read every proposal to find the best freelancer and they don't simply stop at 20 just because they've hit a certain number. Just because you "feel" some way about something doesn't make it true. 

Regarding this comment: "(this person has no experience as a freelancer just as a "client" allegedly) "

At no point did I say I have no experience as a freelancer. In fact, my freelance profile is available for anyone to view. Even you, but you refuse to look past your own beliefs to see what actually might be true. Also, that is improper use of the word, "allegedly" since I did not alledge that I only have experience as a client. That is simply a false statement made by you. 

I've been on Upwork since before it was Upwork. Built multiple accounts up to full-time income and helped students and non-students alike go from $0 to $10k - $20k months. I'm one of the biggest contributors on one of the world's largest entrepreneur forums and I don't only freelance on Upwork.  So yes, I do have experience as a freelancer.

Regarding your comment on "advising rookies" I just make videos on YouTube. Anyone is free to watch them. I started making them for people on a forum and my channel grew from there. You do not have to watch my channel. You do not have to take my advice. In fact, I actively encourage people not to watch when they'd rather let their own limiting beliefs stand in the way of getting results.

"I told him that is better to avoid jobs with more than 20 proposals especially if you are a new freelancer."

You said nothing about "new freelancers" and you couldn't back up your statements about avoiding jobs with 20 proposals with any kind of evidence. I said in order for you to make such statements you would need to:

A) Be a client yourself
B) Speak to clients about this issue

You said that because you've observed 100's of gigs (but not gigs you posted) that you could notice patterns of clients not viewing more than 20+ proposals. So if you'd care to share HOW you noticed this pattern, then be my guest, but hopefully when you share, it doesn't involve your feelings or my personal character being called into question because that's not how factual information works.

On a side note, I DID say it is better to apply sooner when possible. The purpose of the video was to say you shouldn't avoid gigs just because they have a lot of proposals. If you think you are a great fit for a position and you can show the client you're the best, then you SHOULD apply because the client will likely look at your proposal even if there are already a lot of proposals.

It wouldn't make sense not to look at a proposal if you haven't found someone for the gig, and based on my own experience as a client I will look at proposals even after I've hired someone because the person I hired isn't always the right fit. 

Lastly, the basis for my argument that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent (beyond being based on my personal approach to hiring) can be seen in the metaphor of someone picking out the red gummy bears from all the other colors in a bag of gummy bears.

It doesn't matter that there are 1,000's of gummy bears in that bag. You can quickly sort through and find those you are looking for because they have specific traits that set them apart from all the other gummy bears. Therefore you can make quick decisions about whether or not you want that gummy bear just like clients can quickly tell if a freelancer has the traits they're looking for. It doesn't take hours to sort through 50 to 100 proposals when clients know what they want in a freelancer.



Lol and how I am hiding if my profile is here you can see all the info and do a filtered search on the main upwork platform?... I have been working here since this was Odesk as well. I did back up what I said and I even told you to have common sense and talk with other freelancers.

 

I did not say that you said that you were not a freelancer, that was my opinion based on the terrible advice you are giving but if you are really a freelancer then is even worst.

 

I did not know that now that you muted me since I can still see my comments. 

 

You wrote a lot of foolishness that is not worthed to be addressed I will add the evidence next...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Active Member
Tanya H Member Since: Jul 5, 2012
23 of 45

Lex D wrote:

There is no debate.

I gave my opinion that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent because clients look at all proposals. I stated that I regularly earn gigs even when there are 50+ proposals and it happens because I take my time, craft a thoughtful proposal and give clients a reason to choose me over other people. I also stated that as a client I look at every proposal in order to find the best freelancer for my jobs.

After that you claimed that there is no point sending proposals to gigs with 20+ proposals because you've seen a "pattern" which you can back up with "evidence" based on your "observations" as a freelancer that clients do not look at every proposal and that you can prove it because people on Upwork's forum will back you up (which is not evidence).

 

When I pointed out the flaws in your argument (mainly the fact that you, as a freelancer, cannot possibly know whether or not a client viewed every proposal EVEN IF you can see that they interviewed and hired someone prior to there being 20+ proposals) then you reinforced your position with more flawed logic and mind-reading.

Once it became clear that your position was based on personal convictions rather than on any factual data and once you started making ad hominem attacks (attacks on my personal character) then I muted you from my channel.

Unlike you, I do not hide behind a non-public profile. My profile is linked here despite the fact people constantly steal from it and try to pick it apart because I make videos that have helped a lot of other people. But every once in a while someone comes along who isn't getting results and instead of just trying to see things from a new perspective, they assume that they couldn't possibly be doing things ineffectively. This is called the victim mindset. It's when you keep doing things based on your feelings rather than testing things to see what gets actual results.

And now I hear from people on my channel that when I muted your assinine comments you ran to Upwork's forum to start some kind of witch hunt. That's fine though. I understand that because you posted first others will likely take your position. That's how groups tend to work. However, if you'd like to make more of those comments here we'll continue our "debate" and it will become clear to everyone who reads this why you got banned from my channel.

Notice your last sentence in your OP here.

"I feel that is a waste of connects."

Sorry if I hurt your feelings, but your feelings don't change the fact that clients will read every proposal to find the best freelancer and they don't simply stop at 20 just because they've hit a certain number. Just because you "feel" some way about something doesn't make it true. 

Regarding this comment: "(this person has no experience as a freelancer just as a "client" allegedly) "

At no point did I say I have no experience as a freelancer. In fact, my freelance profile is available for anyone to view. Even you, but you refuse to look past your own beliefs to see what actually might be true. Also, that is improper use of the word, "allegedly" since I did not alledge that I only have experience as a client. That is simply a false statement made by you. 

I've been on Upwork since before it was Upwork. Built multiple accounts up to full-time income and helped students and non-students alike go from $0 to $10k - $20k months. I'm one of the biggest contributors on one of the world's largest entrepreneur forums and I don't only freelance on Upwork.  So yes, I do have experience as a freelancer.

Regarding your comment on "advising rookies" I just make videos on YouTube. Anyone is free to watch them. I started making them for people on a forum and my channel grew from there. You do not have to watch my channel. You do not have to take my advice. In fact, I actively encourage people not to watch when they'd rather let their own limiting beliefs stand in the way of getting results.

"I told him that is better to avoid jobs with more than 20 proposals especially if you are a new freelancer."

You said nothing about "new freelancers" and you couldn't back up your statements about avoiding jobs with 20 proposals with any kind of evidence. I said in order for you to make such statements you would need to:

A) Be a client yourself
B) Speak to clients about this issue

You said that because you've observed 100's of gigs (but not gigs you posted) that you could notice patterns of clients not viewing more than 20+ proposals. So if you'd care to share HOW you noticed this pattern, then be my guest, but hopefully when you share, it doesn't involve your feelings or my personal character being called into question because that's not how factual information works.

On a side note, I DID say it is better to apply sooner when possible. The purpose of the video was to say you shouldn't avoid gigs just because they have a lot of proposals. If you think you are a great fit for a position and you can show the client you're the best, then you SHOULD apply because the client will likely look at your proposal even if there are already a lot of proposals.

It wouldn't make sense not to look at a proposal if you haven't found someone for the gig, and based on my own experience as a client I will look at proposals even after I've hired someone because the person I hired isn't always the right fit. 

Lastly, the basis for my argument that it doesn't matter how many proposals have been sent (beyond being based on my personal approach to hiring) can be seen in the metaphor of someone picking out the red gummy bears from all the other colors in a bag of gummy bears.

It doesn't matter that there are 1,000's of gummy bears in that bag. You can quickly sort through and find those you are looking for because they have specific traits that set them apart from all the other gummy bears. Therefore you can make quick decisions about whether or not you want that gummy bear just like clients can quickly tell if a freelancer has the traits they're looking for. It doesn't take hours to sort through 50 to 100 proposals when clients know what they want in a freelancer.



Ok so you are copywriter, let's see how many jobs with more than 20+  proposals we can find:

**Edited for Community Guidelines** 

Edit: images blocked again just search writer jobs

So on how many jobs with 20++/50++ proposals have you applied to? Exactly 

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Active Member
Tanya H Member Since: Jul 5, 2012
24 of 45

Now let's see this job around 20 proposals that will be 50++ and a few days (and I will be back when this job has 50++ proposals to prove my point.

 

As you can see this person already choose whom he/she will interview among the first people he saw that he liked...

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

Active Member
Tanya H Member Since: Jul 5, 2012
25 of 45

We can see this pattern over and over again and if you add trial and error you find out what works best.

As I said you don't know what you are talking about, you are milking coins from Rockies based merely on theories...as you can see all agree here on that it will lower your chances...

 

You got emotional and defensive but the proof is here and I can add more. As I told you I felt bad for you and I did not want to humiliate you on your channel.

 

As I told you before on competitive areas (the ones who are overcrowded) you have to be seen as soon as possible.  You need to be strategic, logic and smart

 

Active Member
Tanya H Member Since: Jul 5, 2012
26 of 45

One more thing:

"It doesn't matter that there are 1,000's of gummy bears in that bag. You can quickly sort through "

My point precisely, they sort out within the first proposals the see, this is why normally these crowded jobs have people being interviewed by the time they have 10-20 proposals. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Community Guru
Eve L Member Since: Feb 17, 2017
27 of 45

Lex D wrote:


At no point did I say I have no experience as a freelancer. In fact, my freelance profile is available for anyone to view. Even you, but you refuse to look past your own beliefs to see what actually might be true. Also, that is improper use of the word, "allegedly" since I did not alledge that I only have experience as a client. That is simply a false statement made by you. 


As far as I can see the profile is set to private. Smiley Sad

________________________
Freelancing is a gamble - To win you need skill, luck and a strategy
Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
28 of 45

Eve L wrote:

Lex D wrote:


At no point did I say I have no experience as a freelancer. In fact, my freelance profile is available for anyone to view. Even you, but you refuse to look past your own beliefs to see what actually might be true. Also, that is improper use of the word, "allegedly" since I did not alledge that I only have experience as a client. That is simply a false statement made by you. 


As far as I can see the profile is set to private. Smiley Sad


Looks like it wasn't earlier. Either he chickened out and hid it or Upwork did after noting the violations referenced in this thread.

Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
29 of 45

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

 

But really I am confused why he doesn't take down the video of him bragging about deleting his account and creating a new one. He got his account back because he makes money, but for new freelancers they will just get a permaban. Really bad and pathetic that he won't delete it to save someone from a surprise suspension but instead just wants to be "right."

Community Guru
Eve L Member Since: Feb 17, 2017
30 of 45

Now his profile is "no longer available." Smiley Tongue

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