Re: Are my proposals even being seen?

penngrp · ‎06-04-2020

This is what I know, although some of these may have changed since I last saw them. When a client searches for freelancers, and eventually posts a job the following events may or may not happen; depending on the situation.

If searching for a freelancer Upwork will display "suggested freelancers" statung they were chosen based on the number of projects they worked on that were similar to your project. (A number of these suggested freelancers actually have no common projects)
After a job is posted Upwork will email the client a list of potential freelancers; this is in addition to the proposals sent in by freelancers bidding on the job. (I don't understand this as it gives the immpression that Upwork is vouching for these freelancers that werre emailed to the client).
The JSS is preselected to 90%. I, like many others think the JSS is worthless, as there are too many variables to make it truly accurate, but that is another discussion entirely. However, and maybe I am wrong, but an individual can achieve a 90% to 100% JSS simply by writing 10 articles @ $5 an article. (To make things even more laughable this freelancer will/could show up as a suggested freelancer in a search if the topic is related to a $5 article they wrote.
Upwork determines the order in which the Client sees the proposals. So if a freelancer sends a proposal Monday morning it may not be made available to the client until several hours later. To make matters worse the client will most likely have to put effort into actually locating these additional proposals. (Think of it as being oevern page 8 of a Google search, Yes it is there, but no one is going to see it.)

Now, back to my question. Currently, I have no JSS, so say I submit a proposal for a business plan will my proposal fall under the "Best Match" category or will it not even be shown to the client, and simply placed in the "additional proposals" section? (Keep in mind I have close to 50 business plans completed on here).

Thanks.

JoanneP · ‎06-05-2020

Hi Jeffrey,

Clients can view all the proposals they received from freelancers. For freelancers who are Top Rated, their profile will show this badge. The hiring decision is still up to the client. Clients decide based on the freelancer qualification and if they are indeed the best match for the skill they require to complete the task.

I'd recommend that you check out the following links to help you improve your profile and have a higher chance of getting noticed by clients:

8+ Tips to Help You Create a Profile That Stands Out

Upwork Profiles: Why a Great Title and Overview Can Make a Difference

A How-To Guide for Your Perfect Profile Picture

Get Your Profile to the Next Level with an Intro Video

4 Ways to Create a More Successful Portfolio Regardless of Your Skill Set

Thank you!

~ Joanne

penngrp · ‎06-05-2020

Thank you Joanne, but you did not answer my question. I am not interested in how to improve my chances for being noticed by a client. I want to know if II am being presented to the client, or am I getting pushed down to the bottom of the list because I do not have a JSS score. I am well aware a client can see all the proposals, but the question is how many clients go beyond the ones presented to them by Upwork?

Simple example. Someone is looking for a business plan. Does Upwork present the client with a proposal and (figuratively) say "Here is a proposal from someone with 100% JSS they never wrote a business plan, but they did write a 500 word article on the topic.

Then do they look at mine and say "This person has written close to 50 business plans on our platform alone, oh what's this no JSS, sorry we can't present your proposal the client will have to find it themselves.

As far as my profile is concerned I have been waiting since Monday for Upwork to make an adjustment concerning the credit of 45 projects and $50,000 in earnings that is not accounted for under the freelancer section of my profile. It only shows in the agency section (Agency and Freelancer sections should both show 51 jobs and earnings of $50,000+

Even this is a hinderance because the client is under the impression that I only did a few jobs.

Thank you

g_vasilevski · ‎06-05-2020

Hi Jeffrey,

Rest assured clients can view your proposals, accept it, and even send an offer.
Regarding your earnings and hours, please keep in mind that freelancers and agency profiles are two different profiles.
~~Jobs completed under your agency will be shown under the agency only, they will not be reflected on your freelancer profile as well.~~ Thank you.

~ Goran

penngrp · ‎06-05-2020

Hi Goran,

What do you mean they only show under the agency? Who do you think did all of the projects; not the agency, me that's who. In addition the projects listed under the freelancer account are also in the agency account. Both accounts are under my email. Upwork even says that both the agency and freelancer will get credit for the jobs.

The question is not about clients having the ability to view my proposal. My question was are they being presented the proposals on the first page, or since I don't have a JSS are my proposals being sent to a page that requires the client to click some sort of link to access.

Best regards,

Jeffrey

VladimirG · ‎06-05-2020

Hi Jeffrey,

Following up on Goran's post, I can confirm contracts completed under the agency are displayed on both the user's freelancer and agency profile.

To your original question, while we can't share detailed information about the "Best Match" algorithm I can assure you that not having a Job Success Score won't affect how your proposal is positioned on the list. Also, note that clients do have an option to sort proposals based on other factors.

I understand your apprehension due to the time you've spent away from Upwork and also due to a lot of misinformation circulating around about what clients see and how proposals are displayed. I can assure you that as long you're submitting custom and targeted proposals to jobs you have skills and experience to complete, you have a pretty good chance to be noticed by the client.

You can find a lot of information and screenshots in the Community about how the proposals look like on the clients' end as well as posts by new users, who unlike you have no history on Upwork, sharing that they were hired in some cases after a few hours after starting on Upwork.

Let us know if you have any questions and be sure to keep us updated on your success moving forward. Good luck!

~ Vladimir

a_lipsey · ‎06-05-2020

I have to chime in here. I just posted a job yesterday for a brand strategist, and numerous were marked as "Best Match" and yet the rhyme and reason behind why they are a best match is entirely lost on me. AND while some of them do look like a good fit, others are not the right fit at all (despite their clear high quality in what they may specialize).

Note to fellow freelancers, not criticizing any of the proposals or profiles, but the algo that determines Best Match. What concerns me is that if I submit a proposal as a freelancer, are you deciding whether or not that's a Best Match and on what basis? As a client, I'm not sure I like you telling me what's a best match or not because (a) I find it's usually not and (b) I don't like being influenced. I might take your word for it instead of properly vetting a freelancer.

I know you can't share the algo, but I really think this Best Match business needs to go away. If you can't tell me as a client why you think it's a best match, then I don't want it. As a client I need to know why you're recommending this person to me. And it is a recommendation from Upwork, since you are telling me what is the Best Match for my job.

mtngigi · ‎06-05-2020

Amanda L wrote:
I have to chime in here. I just posted a job yesterday for a brand strategist, and numerous were marked as "Best Match" and yet the rhyme and reason behind why they are a best match is entirely lost on me. AND while some of them do look like a good fit, others are not the right fit at all (despite their clear high quality in what they may specialize).

Note to fellow freelancers, not criticizing any of the proposals or profiles, but the algo that determines Best Match. What concerns me is that if I submit a proposal as a freelancer, are you deciding whether or not that's a Best Match and on what basis? As a client, I'm not sure I like you telling me what's a best match or not because (a) I find it's usually not and (b) I don't like being influenced. I might take your word for it instead of properly vetting a freelancer.

I know you can't share the algo, but I really think this Best Match business needs to go away. If you can't tell me as a client why you think it's a best match, then I don't want it. As a client I need to know why you're recommending this person to me. And it is a recommendation from Upwork, since you are telling me what is the Best Match for my job.

Best match is probably determined by the same human? algo? that determines who has talent that can be considered "rising".

This practice does the same thing as "hiding" proposals ... which Upwork has always stated they do not do. What's the difference?

van1786 · ‎04-16-2021

I have submitted couple of proposals but the clients have not responded to any of them.
Are my proposals being hidden?
Even when upwork suggests me to be a Best Match for the job, I somehow did not hear back for any of them.

JoanneP · ‎04-16-2021

Hi Vanisha,

I understand that it can be frustrating not to hear back from clients after submitting proposals. Please know that when you submit a proposal, this is sent to the client and they can review it and decide whom to hire. We cannot influence a client's decision, but I'd like to suggest that you please check out the following to help you write proposals:

How to Create a Proposal that Wins Jobs

Craft an Eye-catching Proposal Every Time

~ Joanne

jasongribble · ‎04-28-2021

I have to agree with the others. i haven’t seen any value even after paying for the upgraded service, spending hours writing detailed proposals, and even improving my profile.

After nearly 100 proposals, some under bid intentionally, I haven’t even received a message or question from any of my proposals.

Upon checking the projects, most are still open after months.

I believe two things are possible.

The system has started being hit with bots posting fake projects, either to use up freelancer connects, or to collect proposals as reference in their own bids.

I also believe that the system lacks the ability to distinguish between highly skilled but new users, from long term users. This is in conflict to how most professional RFP systems are done. With so many competing offers for the same project it is less likely everyone’s is given a fair review.

Limiting the number of proposals for each project until the client reviews and rejects for more would help. Early bird gets the work or ar least a shot.

In regards to the bots, I have worked with large corporations that deny it is happening until they are over run. They are highly sophisticated and VPNs even make it hard for google to filter them.

By authentication of clients posting with a phone number, and even cross reference IP address with each login from that account to location, you can find hundreds of them.

I hope you can pass along my input. Solutions benefit upwork and their users.

2a05aa63 · ‎04-28-2021

Jason G wrote:
I have to agree with the others. i haven’t seen any value even after paying for the upgraded service, spending hours writing detailed proposals, and even improving my profile.

After nearly 100 proposals, some under bid intentionally, I haven’t even received a message or question from any of my proposals.

Upon checking the projects, most are still open after months.

I believe two things are possible.

The system has started being hit with bots posting fake projects, either to use up freelancer connects, or to collect proposals as reference in their own bids.

I also believe that the system lacks the ability to distinguish between highly skilled but new users, from long term users. This is in conflict to how most professional RFP systems are done. With so many competing offers for the same project it is less likely everyone’s is given a fair review.

Limiting the number of proposals for each project until the client reviews and rejects for more would help. Early bird gets the work or ar least a shot.

In regards to the bots, I have worked with large corporations that deny it is happening until they are over run. They are highly sophisticated and VPNs even make it hard for google to filter them.

By authentication of clients posting with a phone number, and even cross reference IP address with each login from that account to location, you can find hundreds of them.

I hope you can pass along my input. Solutions benefit upwork and their users.

Upwork is just very competitive. And not every client does eventually hires someone. Try sending a proposal in the first ~15 applicants and don't bother when there's more, since the client's attention span isn't that big. Sure, there are some clients that select for weeks people, but those can be a pain to work with.

Don't put too much effort into proposals. Be short. Again, the client is alone, but there's a lot of applications. They won't read 4 paragraphs of how awesome you are. Just tell them why you are a good fit, no one needs more than that. No one wants to hire a tryhard. That mostly shows that someone is overcompensating.

And at the end of the day, the client will select someone they like. Even if they can't really explain their decision.

petra_r · ‎04-28-2021

Jason G wrote:
Limiting the number of proposals for each project until the client reviews and rejects for more would help. Early bird gets the work or ar least a shot.

It wouldn't help. The opposite! It would prevent genuine proposals being seen because the copy-paste bots are the "early birds"?

Ridiculous idea because clients might not even reject the spam proposals from the so-called "early birds". The client would see poor canned proposals, see that nothing better appears, and give up.

Jason G wrote:
Upon checking the projects, most are still open after months.

Job posts are automatically closed after 30 days.

Jason G wrote:
After nearly 100 proposals, some under bid intentionally, I haven’t even received a message or question from any of my proposals.

You could check the clients' hire rate, and only apply to job posts that have a high hire rate. But if you are not getting any response from 100 proposals, chances are that your proposals or your profile don't attract the clients' attention.

0ae2f904 · ‎01-28-2023

I am glad I have googled and found this post, as I am suspicious we don't even know if a proposal is read at all (at least, for example, on LinkedIn we can see when our application is seen), and my gut feeling is that any service like this will eventually push for people to pay for a membership when most of us are here to try and make a living as freelancers - and even as per comments above, not sure this woud even work just by paying. If any of you have been successfull in getting a proposal after trying an x amount, please do let me know. I have just joined and properly started looking here, but am very suspicious if it will go anywhere. Also, I'm registered on other platforms ,mainly for tuition services which I also do, and they most definitely find me lots of work without me even having to pay a fee to stand out.
Let's see