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abinadab-agbo
Community Member

Asking for free work no longer a serious violation

Today, the Upwork team changed the list of reasons for which a freelancer may flag a job posting as inappropriate.

Importantly, they removed the option "Client is asking for free work".

 

Isn't that disgraceful? The Upwork team would like to reduce awareness among especially new freelancers that asking for free work is a serious violation. At least, not serious enough to be on the main list of reasons for which a job may be flagged.

And don't tell me flaggers can just click it's something else and enter the reason. Such an excuse won't fly.

 

Flag as inappropriate.png

27 REPLIES 27
jordonbaade
Community Member

Why has the option to flag jobs asking for free work gone away? 


Jordon B wrote:

Why has the option to flag jobs asking for free work gone away? 


I imagine it's because they are no longer as interested in being notified of clients asking free work.  Crazy, right?  It sounds like a problem, but certainly not my problem.  My feed moves pretty quick, and it was enough that every now and then I took time out to notify them of requests for free work.   Forget it now.  I'm not taking extra time to fill out a form, while my feed goes by, so they can stick it in some "Other" bucket and maybe deal with it later.  Nope.


Anna T wrote:

I imagine it's because they are no longer as interested in being notified of clients asking free work. 

 

Sounds more to me like they got tired of combing through huge numbers of "asking for free work" flags that were lies, because freelancers had arbitrarily decided that some payment level or other was "tantamount to asking for free work." We've seen many declare their intention to do just that in the forums, and it seems that once again the lowest element has broken things for the professionals.

 


Tiffany S wrote:

Anna T wrote:

I imagine it's because they are no longer as interested in being notified of clients asking free work. 

 

Sounds more to me like they got tired of combing through huge numbers of "asking for free work" flags that were lies, because freelancers had arbitrarily decided that some payment level or other was "tantamount to asking for free work." We've seen many declare their intention to do just that in the forums, and it seems that once again the lowest element has broken things for the professionals.

 


Could be.  But now instead of some useful information they'll be getting no information, at least from me anyway.  If you are correct, and it makes some sense, I just find it crazy that they continue to let the dead weight drag everyone else around.  I mean, most of this system is designed around the undesirables and to me it just seems counter-productive.

lysis10
Community Member


Anna T wrote:


 I just find it crazy that they continue to let the dead weight drag everyone else around.  I mean, most of this system is designed around the undesirables and to me it just seems counter-productive.


Yep, you ain't kiddin. It's frustrating. Most of the rules and crazy verification everything is because of the undesirables.

 

I don't hire much but I would probably never hire an auto accepted account that is only a few months old. I'd probably also never hire an account that is old and suddenly the freelancer came back. I'm sure both have some legit freelancers, but I'll let some other client figure out which ones are legit from the frauds.


Anna T wrote:

Tiffany S wrote:

Anna T wrote:

I imagine it's because they are no longer as interested in being notified of clients asking free work. 

 

Sounds more to me like they got tired of combing through huge numbers of "asking for free work" flags that were lies, because freelancers had arbitrarily decided that some payment level or other was "tantamount to asking for free work." We've seen many declare their intention to do just that in the forums, and it seems that once again the lowest element has broken things for the professionals.

 


Could be.  But now instead of some useful information they'll be getting no information, at least from me anyway.  If you are correct, and it makes some sense, I just find it crazy that they continue to let the dead weight drag everyone else around.  I mean, most of this system is designed around the undesirables and to me it just seems counter-productive.


I agree with this. I think a better answer would be to spam-route some user's flags (if they've established a pattern of flagging things that don't violate TOS just because they don't like them). Or, even send out a message after a few flags on things that don't violate TOS explaining what the system is for and letting the user know they'll lose the ability to flag if they continue to flag jobs that don't violate terms.

Exactly.  I'm pretty certain they can use whatever unique identifier is attached to us to flag incorrect reports of free work requests.  Three strikes and you're out. 

It just cracks me up that people scream low revenues for this company and here they go and shoot themselves in the foot again.   I mean, freelancers probably have the front row seat when it comes to free work requests and just like that it's gone due to "other" priorities.  Pretty self-defeating if you ask me.   It's things like this that upset people.  It's exhausting to hear over and over and over again about poor revenues when this company just can't seem to get out of it's own way.  

colettelewis
Community Member


Abinadab A wrote:

Today, the Upwork team changed the list of reasons for which a freelancer may flag a job posting as inappropriate.

Importantly, they removed the option "Client is asking for free work".

 

Isn't that disgraceful? The Upwork team would like to reduce awareness among especially new freelancers that asking for free work is a serious violation. At least, not serious enough to be on the main list of reasons for which a job may be flagged.

And don't tell me flaggers can just click it's something else and enter the reason. Such an excuse won't fly.

 

Flag as inappropriate.png


It would be useful if a moderator could comment on this. Is a client allowed to ask for free work? This seems to be an added area of ambiguity (despite the Tos) as is academic cheating. 

 

gaspardjack
Community Member

Hope it is a glitch!

I've reported a job post this morning offering payment outside of Upwork. The post was taken down. The client reposted the same job and is now asking for freelancers to "be able to legally emit an invoice as an independent contractor".

Why would he do that if he intended to pay via Upwork?

 

 

kochubei_valeria
Community Member

Hi Abinadab and others,

 

"Requesting or demanding free services" is still against the TOS as stated here.

 

We have consolidated some options to increase clarity, based on user feedback, and improve our ability to quickly take action on jobs flagged by our community. The options that were consolidated were often confused for other violations or underused. We also added some of the most frequent “It's something else” reasons to the new list. These changes don't reflect any change in how seriously we take any violation.

If you come across a job that includes a request for free work, you can flag it as a “scam” job or choose “It’s something else” and type in more details. Your flag will be delivered to our Trust & Safety team as it would before and reviewed as soon as possible. I will be sure to share your feedback with our team!

~ Valeria
Upwork

This change doesn't make any sense and it certainly doesn't improve clarity. Clients asking for free work is the violation that I flag way more often than anything else, so I don't understand why it's been removed from the list. If it's not in the list of options, new freelancers will think that it's fine for clients to ask for free work.

 

If you need to keep the list short, you should remove "Person is attempting to buy or use my Upwork account." I may be wrong, but I doubt that many of those types of scammers place projects directly on Upwork; freelancers are far more likely to be contacted via Linked In, reddit or another freelancing website.

 

Thanks Christine. I found it really weird, this change.
At least half of the violations I flag are free work.
That is literally the most important item for me on that list.

With this change they've made it more difficult to flag for freelancers who've been flagging jobs for a long time.

They've also made it impossible for new freelancers to flag that.
That clause on free work is buried in the recesses of the TOS.
The option for free work on the flag button is how most freelancers first learnt that asking for free work is a violation.
So this comes across as a very coy move from Upwork.

They don't think it is important enough to be on that list.
But I'm telling them it's the most important thing on the list.

Hi Christine and Abinadab,

 

We do appreciate your feedback and will definitely share it with our team. Our Trust & Safety team will continue to review all aspects of a job that's flagged, both when a specific violation is selected and when the "something else" option is used. Please do continue flagging jobs that contain violations of our TOS and providing as much evidence as possible, in order to help our team investigate and take appropriate and immediate action.

~ Vladimir
Upwork

Um, what?

 

How does this at all reduce confusion?  Now instead of having reports in a specific bucket, 'asking for free work' which gives a clear context to the issue and allows you to run through them with some speed, we're given a box to fill out instead and your techs are suppose to find it easier to parse that text to deduce the issue?

I mean I'm guessing you don't have any automations to group those, seeing how you definitely aren't currently scanning any job posts that verbatim ask for "free work" either.

 

That doesn't make a lick of logical sense, and just seems like you're abandoning your role in moderating these posts to reduce your payroll costs.

So that's it?

 

Some vague claim that people were confusing this option or not using it when all the freelancers here say it's the one they use most? No follow up?

 

If these decisions are based on feedback, why not allow all the top-freelancers a say before you impliment changes like this so that the discussion is held in public so we're not left to just trust what you say is happening when it doesn't make logical sense.

 

I'm headed toward cancelling my subscription, again, and looking at your competitors because this seems like a sinking ship.

JB,

 

The Good News is-

1. You're absolutely correct. (this is a completely shady UW move)

The Bad News is-

2. You're absolutely correct. (this is a sinking ship)

 

Work smart, work safe!

wb


Valeria K wrote:

The options that were consolidated were often confused for other violations 


Just in case anyone is in any doubt: This means we can thank those people who are furious about jobs with a low budget and have been manically flagging them and calling the masses to flag them, in this very forum, too.

 

 

I do thank them.

 

Some of those budgets are so rediculously low it basically is free work, the people that post them need a reality check.  Upwork should do more to educate and set realistic expections for costs not decide to get rid of a feature which makes it easy to track down posts that are requesting free work.  

 

I absolutely do not see this playing out and helping improve the process for identifying posts truly asking for free work either way.


Petra R wrote:

Valeria K wrote:

The options that were consolidated were often confused for other violations 


Just in case anyone is in any doubt: This means we can thank those people who are furious about jobs with a low budget and have been manically flagging them and calling the masses to flag them, in this very forum, too.

 

I won't post a full reply, because when I do (to you) it (funnily enough) gets removed, but well said. How dare people advise Upwork of breaches of its TOS or complain about jobs posted that are an insult to freelancers (wherever they may live). It's all such an inconvenice isn't it? Hope everything is ok with you in the Ivory Tower.


 


Richard S wrote:

I won't post a full reply, because when I do (to you) it (funnily enough) gets removed, but well said. How dare people advise Upwork of breaches of its TOS or complain about jobs posted that are an insult to freelancers (wherever they may live). It's all such an inconvenice isn't it? Hope everything is ok with you in the Ivory Tower.


 


Yes, it IS an inconvenience when people lie and report things they know perfectly well don't violate TOS simply because they don't like them. It eats up resources, which means that real issues (including actual TOS violations) don't get addressed in a timely manner because staff is busy sifting through the lies. 

 

If you're actually concerned about violations, then you will of course not want people to flood Upwork with fake reports that clog up the system and prevent the actual violations from being addressed. 


Richard S wrote:

Petra R wrote:

Valeria K wrote:

The options that were consolidated were often confused for other violations 


Just in case anyone is in any doubt: This means we can thank those people who are furious about jobs with a low budget and have been manically flagging them and calling the masses to flag them, in this very forum, too.

How dare people advise Upwork of breaches of its TOS or complain about jobs posted that are an insult to freelancers (wherever they may live). It's all such an inconvenice isn't it? Hope everything is ok with you in the Ivory Tower.


 


There is a clear difference between complaining about low rates and flagging job posts that violate the terms of service. When people abuse the flagging facility to complain about job posts they personally don't like, but which do not violate any terms, that is pointless at best and is, as Tiffany pointed out, wasting resources which are then not available to deal with the real problems. "I don't like this job post" is not a valid reason to flag. 

 

I also never said that people should not flag jobs that violate the terms of service. That is what the function is there for. A budget you don't like, however, is not a violation of any terms. So flagging job posts that do not violate anything just out of spite is inappropriate and wastes resources we all (some more, some less) pay for.

Scam jobs / free work are what I flag for most, how the heck is this easier? What exactly was 'asking for free work' being confused with? I call bologna.


Valeria K wrote:

Hi Abinadab and others,

 

"Requesting or demanding free services" is still against the TOS as stated here.

 

We have consolidated some options to increase clarity, based on user feedback, and improve our ability to quickly take action on jobs flagged by our community. The options that were consolidated were often confused for other violations or underused. We also added some of the most frequent “It's something else” reasons to the new list. These changes don't reflect any change in how seriously we take any violation.

If you come across a job that includes a request for free work, you can flag it as a “scam” job or choose “It’s something else” and type in more details. Your flag will be delivered to our Trust & Safety team as it would before and reviewed as soon as possible. I will be sure to share your feedback with our team!


I'm sorry but this makes no sense. If Upwork, the business, is having trouble with Freelancers, the paying customers, reporting projects that have too low of a budget, then Upwork needs to figure out what they, Upwork, are doing wrong. It seems to me that rather than have people who have little experience in flagging jobs intuit that they should choose "it's something else" and then explain what the something else is, Upwork could, at the very least, list "e.g. client is asking for free work," as one of the possible reasons to choose something else, OR, more logically, Upwork could clarify the option of "client is asking for free work" to explain that listing a ridiculously low budget for a project does not in fact violate the terms of service, and is not an acceptable reason to flag a job.


Kelly B wrote:


It seems to me that rather than have people who have little experience in flagging jobs intuit that they should choose "it's something else" and then explain what the something else is, Upwork could, at the very least, list "e.g. client is asking for free work," as one of the possible reasons to choose something else, OR, more logically, Upwork could clarify the option of "client is asking for free work" to explain that listing a ridiculously low budget for a project does not in fact violate the terms of service, and is not an acceptable reason to flag a job.


If anything, Upwork will get even more time-wasters who will flag "It's something else," in order to complain about low budgets.

 

Having an option to flag "Client is asking for free work" makes it much clearer that "free work" is a valid reason to report a client, whereas "cheap work" is not.

 

Truly what has happened to Upwork recently.

Either they've decided to stop caring about users entirely, or their ongoing shady practices are suddenly all coming to light. 


Christine A wrote:

 

If anything, Upwork will get even more time-wasters who will flag "It's something else," in order to complain about low budgets.

Correct.  But I have a funny feeling that the "It's something else" bucket is now (and probably has been) the "Someday" bucket -- Someday we'll look into this.  I don't know, but to me this just seems like a store removing their video cameras because it's less of a hassle to deal with theft than it is to review tapes.  So, to mitigate that, they just raise the price of everything.  Problem solved for them.

 


 

Continued crickets from the top notch Upwork team!

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