Attn. adobe illustrator users

[#1]

If you give a client a final .ai artwork saved as a .pdf, they can open that file with illustrator and edit it as an ai file correct?

[#2]

Exactly, Preston! I do the same thing. So why do the clients keep asking for "an editable .ai file too" ? I suspect it's coming from their web developers who don't know they can open a .pdf in .ai and edit it.

I have to start telling them, if you want to edit it you need ai. If you have ai you can edit it.

[#3]

I normally ask web devs what size and format they want, and supply that. If they want an .ai file, why not give them an .ai file? If they find that they can't edit it, that's not your problem.

[#4]

Because I'm not dealing with the web developer. I'm dealing with the client
who doesnt know what they need so they ask for .ai .pdf .eps .svg .png .jpg
and then horizontal, vertical, black and white icon only and al of a sudden
you've got to save label and archive 48 files! It's ridiculous. I'm not
doing it any more. You get what I give you and you'll like it! Hahaha.

[#5]

Oh, well in that case, I'd tell the client to either find out what they want, or else I'd charge them for however long it takes to save the files in all of those formats. Their choice.

[#6]

Yes.

Need to charge.

If this is an hourly contract, then it takes more time to deal with all of these files.

But you get paid for your time. So it is fine.

If this is a fixed-price contract, then the client doesn't have the right to ask for anything outside of what is written in the fixed-price task agreement.

As a practical matter, an .ai file can be used to generate all of the other files.

So the art director or lead graphic designer for the project should be asking only for either .ai files or .pdf files.

The client himself should not be making this decision. This is a decision for the art director or lead graphic designer.

[#7]

Warning: this is long but hopefully interesting.

My experience is clients don't ever mention their art director or web
developer. They want simple answers to complex questions on a subject about
which they know only a little, understandably, that's why they hire us.

The tricky part is that they don't know what they don't know. They might
assume there is nothing *to* know. A great logo design looks
incredibly simple because it was meticulously crafted to look that way. How
hard could it be to draw 3 lines?

One client told me he doesn't need 5 concepts to choose from he just wants
the final one. So i can charge him a lot less for just that one. And he'll
know it when he sees it. It will knock his socks off. I ask him to show me
a logo that knocks his socks off—pick from the top companies in the world.

Logos are not meant to knock off socks. The Sistine Chapel will knock your
socks off but it makes a lousy logo. Hourly is out of the question.

Digress much, Ray? as I was saying about formats...

Worst case scenario is when they say I need it for Instagram, Facebook,
Linked in, Whatsapp, Snapchat, Tiktok, Doodleme, Pokemongo, Findabro,
Cringedate, and a DMV wanted poster. But they don't know what size or
format it should be nor which windows they want to put it in. Or whether
it's a personal page, a business page, a group page, a banner, etc.

Oh, and they want one the perfect size for the website they haven't
designed yet. So you embark on a 3-day spelunking safari to seek out
the elusive specs so you can give all the right files to their elusive
social media managers scattered around the jungles of Webvania (the specs
and the manager). They prefer not to answer questions and don't
understand why you can't just give them exactly what they need. That's
worst case. But there is a little Spinola of Genoa in every client.

I can't do logo design hourly because a lot of the work doesn't happen on
screen. Some happens in the middle of the night when you wake up from a
dream shouting "Urethra! I've gotta pee!"
It's not like data entry that can be observed on screen.

What they are buying is your years of experience, training, creative
genius, marketing savvy, understanding of psychological cues and subliminal
metaphors that have an impact on the success of their advertising campaign,
the ability to maintain the customers perspective which is an initial gut
reaction that the client has lost after scrutinizing and overthinking the
design for days.

And then there is the most demanding skill of all: the ability to explain
all this to your client in a concise, comprehensive way... in 23 words or
less...before the other 50 candidates do... when you really gotta pee!

[#8]

Yes.

Nowadays I often dispense with using the .ai raw Illustrator file format altogether.

Most of the time when I use Illustrator, I just use the pdf format.

Because then I don't need to deal with two separate files.

[#9]

Yes, Ray, they can open a PDF file with illustrator and edit it as an AI file.
However, If they don't have the fonts, they won't be able to edit the text depending on the method used to save the PDF. Or I should say they may be able to edit the text; however, it will be with a font substitute.

Also, if you save the file as An SVG, then the client does not need to use Adobe Illustrator to open it. They can use any vector program.

Your question brings up another question as PDFs are not usually made to be edited. So why does the client want a PDF? What's the purpose? That's the way to provide quality service to your client above and beyond what they expect. Not by saying, "That's what you asked for; it's your problem."

The way I handle it is to find out the file format delivery before I start the job. Then I can ask these questions and educate the client on what software is needed to do what they want to accomplish, even if it's just opening the file.

[#10]

Well everyone can view a pdf so that's one reason I use it. If they dont
have creative suite they cant edit it anyway so they will have the fonts.
You say they can use any vector program but I cant please everybody in
every way sumpms gotta give. But that's a good idea to ask first except
clients dont usually know anything and if you ask them stuff like that you
lose them. I just wonder where they get the idea they need four vector
formats.

Another thing that's been annoying lately is these prefab questions upwork
offers; "where do you get you inspiration from?" Uh... from waking up in
the morning?


##- Please type your reply above this line -

[#11]

True about the Creative Suite and access to fonts. However, I have a font collection outside of Adobe, so that's why I said that.

A SVG file takes the pressure off you trying to please everybody, since you don't need to worry about them being able to open the file.

In over ten years I've never lost a client because I've asked questions ahead of time. When they don't know anything I find out why they are asking me and the answers are quite logical (usually) and give me more information. The usual answer is the printer told them to ask the designer for it. That is vital information for me, because now I can have the client ask the printer specific information that will help me to prepare a file that lessens the possibilities of printing problems. I can find out which printing profile to use or they will send their printer profile to me. Sometime the printer may prefer an EPS file.

Other times these are the specs from a Print-On-Demand or similar site. These sites give you an option to submit one of many file formats, however the just figures it's best to get all of them. That's most likely where they are getting the idea they need four vector formats. Because of POD sites I've just gotten in the habit of giving the client all the different file types and include a READ ME file on how each can be used and which they can open and which they can't if they don't have the proper program.

Outside of Upwork, another reason I ask questions is so I can put the information into the contract before any work begins. I'm new here, so all of my previous clients have been outside of Upwork

Haha, yes, prefab questions can be annoying. I have to suffer those also.

I hope my answers have been helpful.

[#12]

Yes that was helpful, thank you. All those formats takes time and have to
be labelled and archived but i can find a happy medium. If you are new here
you'll find clients to be a bit more skittish and if they have to answer
too many questions they'll jump ship and go with one of the other 50
applicants. but you'll get used to it. It's still pretty steady work once
you get going.

[#13]

Howard, I've found the printers that ask for eps are just out of date. They're usually old union shops using antiquated RIP software and that's what they've always asked for. So you say anything will open an SVG? I'll have to give that a try, just outline the fonts first.

Yes, you've been very helpful, Howard, and I appreciate it.

[#14]

Yes, I am new to Upwork and figuring out how to navigate around here. Outside of here, since I'm getting my rate or above, it's well worth it to me to label the files and whatever else to service the client.

I didn't say "anything," I said any vector program. The only reason to request an SVG fiile is because the person already has a vector program.  So that's why there won't be an issue.

Other programs can open SVG files such as Photoshop, whether they remain vector files is a different story. Each  program will have to be looked at for their limitations.