Bad Client

[frontdevguy]

I have been working for this client of mine since OCT, 2017. I am actually still new to Upwork after having my account reactivated SEPT.

I had taken a task 16 Jan - 21 Jan and the task was well completed and acknowledged by him. I told him to go ahead with payment and requested he paid in two phases. I had already earned $385, so I told him to pay $115 after which Upwork will reduce my service fee to 5% then He could go ahead with the remaining $285 after that but he suggested he paid with PayPal saying that would relieve me of the first %20 fee. 

I accepted but told him my country doesn't have access to PayPal only if He would send by MoneyGram to my direct bank account which he complied to do the following Monday.

Monday already but he came up with an excuse that Canada has snow and no one could go out, well he is a long time client and so I had no reason to doubt him, two weeks later he is still yet to make payment then I told him I could get my uncles PayPal in the US to send the money which He said he is gonna do in the next 24hours after receiving the email address. 2 days he was still yet to make payment so I told him to make payment via Upwork and forget using PayPal.

He didn't respond thereafter, I sent him series of messages but he wouldn't reply. 3days ago an incident occurred, a friend of mine had my Upwork login details and went ahead to login into my client FTP and made some changes to two files.

I got a text from my client saying something was wrong with the website I told him I was going to look into and I did, I got to know some parts had been commented out some of the HTML  codes and I told him I found the problem and was going to fix it right away. I tried logging into FTP and was getting access denied, I contacted him lamented him not trusting me and requested why he never told me he changed the FTP password.

He said he has been sick and was going to message me later in the day when He got home from the hospital.

A few hours later, He texted me saying he was going to launch an investigation into what had happened by this time I had sent him the fix by upwork file upload but he told me restored backup.

Not quite long he told me the changes came from my machine that the files were re-uploaded 3days ago from my machine, I didn't want to argue so I told him I was going to look into that. I came clean to him stating I have some else that has my login details and possibilities that He made the changes to get even with me and that I didn't do it voluntarily and ready to take blames. He responded saying he doesn't take sorry and that He has contact Upwork and was told to close the contract.

I was first amazed and suggested he files a dispute and not close the contract but he was bent on doing so, I told him to do as instructed but told him about my outstanding payments. He said and I quote " NO MILESTONE FROM ME" so I don't owe you. I was amused He said something of such, instantly I knew I just got myself into a big mess then I told him why my friend did so and was ready to be fired but I should be paid my outstanding payments.

He was bent on me admitting I did it to get his attention and I told him I didn't do that but ready to take blames. He wasn't ready to listen to me. I BEGGED him for the money I worked for( kinda weird though, but I had no choice).

He still went ahead to close the contract and left me a review "

BEWARE THIS PROGRAMMER IS A SCAMMER FROM NIGERIA TRYING TO GET OTHER PEOPLE IN IS ACCOUNT TO DO THE WORK FOR HIM DO NOT HIRE HIM YOU WILL LOOSE YOUR MONEY"

why would he do that after not paying me? He labelled me a "SCAMMER"  wow, that is a lot there cause I never scammed him of anything. I didn't run away with the money He did and went away with my job he admitted I did exceptionally well.

Am not even interested in begging for the money any longer so I left him series of messages lamenting how badly I felt about his behaviour and if he had come out clean to pay my money in the first place none of this would have happened after which he closed our conversation room.

Lest I forgot, it isn't my first begging him to pay for a job I did but I still stuck to him after all.

 I had submitted over 15 proposals recently but none got back to me, I decided to view my profile that was when I noticed it was the feedback that was making clients avoid me and I have enabled client's feedback change but I doubt if he is ever gonna do that. "He said he has no heart feeling for me so why would he care after all.

All I want is the feedback removed and nothing more, for now, even though he violated me by spelling me a SCAM. 

It is very clear I might never land another job again on Upwork if the feedback doesn't get removed. Being from a country that has international trust issues "Nigeria".

I have screenshots of out messages and ready to post them here if I won't be violating any rights.

[iamchunchunchun]

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@Joshua O wrote:

I have been working for this client of mine since OCT, 2017. I am actually still new to Upwork after having my account reactivated SEPT.

I had taken a task 16 Jan - 21 Jan and the task was well completed and acknowledged by him. I told him to go ahead with payment and requested he paid in two phases. I had already earned $385, so I told him to pay $115 after which Upwork will reduce my service fee to 5% then He could go ahead with the remaining $285 after that but he suggested he paid with PayPal saying that would relieve me of the first %20 fee. 

I accepted but told him my country doesn't have access to PayPal only if He would send by MoneyGram to my direct bank account which he complied to do the following Monday.

Monday already but he came up with an excuse that Canada has snow and no one could go out, well he is a long time client and so I had no reason to doubt him, two weeks later he is still yet to make payment then I told him I could get my uncles PayPal in the US to send the money which He said he is gonna do in the next 24hours after receiving the email address. 2 days he was still yet to make payment so I told him to make payment via Upwork and forget using PayPal.

He didn't respond thereafter, I sent him series of messages but he wouldn't reply. 3days ago an incident occurred, a friend of mine had my Upwork login details and went ahead to login into my client FTP and made some changes to two files.

I got a text from my client saying something was wrong with the website I told him I was going to look into and I did, I got to know some parts had been commented out some of the HTML  codes and I told him I found the problem and was going to fix it right away. I tried logging into FTP and was getting access denied, I contacted him lamented him not trusting me and requested why he never told me he changed the FTP password.

He said he has been sick and was going to message me later in the day when He got home from the hospital.

A few hours later, He texted me saying he was going to launch an investigation into what had happened by this time I had sent him the fix by upwork file upload but he told me restored backup.

Not quite long he told me the changes came from my machine that the files were re-uploaded 3days ago from my machine, I didn't want to argue so I told him I was going to look into that. I came clean to him stating I have some else that has my login details and possibilities that He made the changes to get even with me and that I didn't do it voluntarily and ready to take blames. He responded saying he doesn't take sorry and that He has contact Upwork and was told to close the contract.

I was first amazed and suggested he files a dispute and not close the contract but he was bent on doing so, I told him to do as instructed but told him about my outstanding payments. He said and I quote " NO MILESTONE FROM ME" so I don't owe you. I was amused He said something of such, instantly I knew I just got myself into a big mess then I told him why my friend did so and was ready to be fired but I should be paid my outstanding payments.

He was bent on me admitting I did it to get his attention and I told him I didn't do that but ready to take blames. He wasn't ready to listen to me. I BEGGED him for the money I worked for( kinda weird though, but I had no choice).

He still went ahead to close the contract and left me a review "

BEWARE THIS PROGRAMMER IS A SCAMMER FROM NIGERIA TRYING TO GET OTHER PEOPLE IN IS ACCOUNT TO DO THE WORK FOR HIM DO NOT HIRE HIM YOU WILL LOOSE YOUR MONEY"

why would he do that after not paying me? He labelled me a "SCAMMER"  wow, that is a lot there cause I never scammed him of anything. I didn't run away with the money He did and went away with my job he admitted I did exceptionally well.

Am not even interested in begging for the money any longer so I left him series of messages lamenting how badly I felt about his behaviour and if he had come out clean to pay my money in the first place none of this would have happened after which he closed our conversation room.

Lest I forgot, it isn't my first begging him to pay for a job I did but I still stuck to him after all.

 I had submitted over 15 proposals recently but none got back to me, I decided to view my profile that was when I noticed it was the feedback that was making clients avoid me and I have enabled client's feedback change but I doubt if he is ever gonna do that. "He said he has no heart feeling for me so why would he care after all.

All I want is the feedback removed and nothing more, for now, even though he violated me by spelling me a SCAM. 

It is very clear I might never land another job again on Upwork if the feedback doesn't get removed. Being from a country that has international trust issues "Nigeria".

I have screenshots of out messages and ready to post them here if I won't be violating any rights.

---

If I didn't misunderstand anything you said, you are clearly a scammer who attempted to scam Upwork. And it is very clear that you might never land another job on Upwork again, because your account is likely gone soon...

[frontdevguy]

No, you misunderstood. I said I might never be able to get another job on upwork because he called me a scammer so I want it removed.

[iamchunchunchun]

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@Joshua O wrote:

No, you misunderstood. I said I might never be able to get another job on upwork because he called me a scammer so I want it removed.

---

 1. "I had already earned $385, so I told him to pay $115 after which Upwork will reduce my service fee to 5% then He could go ahead with the remaining $285 after that but he suggested he paid with PayPal saying that would relieve me of the first %20 fee. "

It does not work this way. If he paid you $400 after you earned $385 from this client, 20% service fees would apply to the first $115 of those $400, while 10% (not 5%) service fees would be applied to the remaining $285.

2. Why did you think that it's ok to accept payment through Paypal?

[frontdevguy]

1. My motivate was clear when I told him to pay in two phases. How does that mounts to scamming Upwork ??

   I looked up the fees and found it was 10% for above $500. I was ignorant of that because I have worked job above $500, maybe I just didn't do my calculatons well.

2. Firstly, he suggested PayPal, I never did. I later told him to go Upwork since his way wasn't working out.

   Secondly, I never thought of it as okay, I was just trying to please my client which he eventually used against me.

[frontdevguy]

By the way, what made you say this.

[emiguelina]

This is soooooo bad at so many levels.

Joshua: to suggest, accept or hint to clients pay you outside platform is a TOS violation that makes your account to be suspended.

[frontdevguy]

I didn't Suggest, He did. do you need a screenshot for verification

[frontdevguy]

Oh, I violated TOS because I accepted.

[felixmena · Accepted solution]

Hi Joshua,

Thank you for sharing your concern and I am sorry to hear about this problem.

I see there's an open ticket already and that one of out team members will reach out to you with further information about your case by that same mean.

[jsekine123]

Hi, Felix,

  I just realized that one of my clients I gave an honest review (2.6) changed their review from 4 stars to 3 stars since I didn't change their review/# of stars...

  Is this violating the fairness of Upwork monitoring? I could have given a 5 star for this bad client but I did give a fair review (I actually wanted to change to 2 stars originally) so my 2.6 stars was fare but they try to overpower by giving a bad review...

  I don't want to get in "review war" by giving my honest rating (2 start) but this should be prevented by your system since they gave me 4 star initially... 

  My other & good client is very happy with me and he can give me 5 star for sure but I'm still working for his contract so he cannot provide the review yet...

  That will be great if you could let me know 1) if my client gives me a review before the contract end and 2) if I fix this unfair treatment/review from bad client.

Best,

Junko

[aocumen]

Hi Junko, 

I would like to confirm that both clients and freelancers are only able to provide feedback once a contract is closed. Clients and freelancers are unable to edit their for each other, unless the feature to edit the feedback was enabled. You may read about it here, and here.

I'm not sure how you saw that the client changed your feedback from 4 to 3 stars, and if you can elaborate on that, I'll go look into it further. 

[jsekine123]

Hi,

Thanks for your feedback. Well, after the contract closed, I got an email saying that my client provided a review and it showed 4 star there.

After a few days later, they contacted me to change my review to better rating from Upwork message. I ignored it but I got another email from Upwork if I wanted to change my review on the client... I didn't use this feature since there was nothing add (I could do my "real review" but I thought it was childish so I didn't...) I was asked to sign up for their database but I refused it since it was outside of Upwork contract to keep Upwork work ethics...

I didn't check on my rating afterwards since I trusted the protection from Upwork (client cannot change review contents after rating) but it seemed like it was changed, actually...

I'm a little disappointed by Upwork not to be able to support freelancers' right since my review would help other freelances to watch out this client... So, I scarified myself but no rewards for that...

Anyhow, it would be great if you could make sure we freelancers would be protected in your system in the future and it would be great if you could provide the place to recover this kind of "bad luck" damage to my rating.

Best,

Junko

[tlbp]

[petra_r]

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Junko S wrote:

I didn't check on my rating afterwards since I trusted the protection from Upwork (client cannot change review contents after rating) but it seemed like it was changed, actually...

---

Junko, the client did not change his feedback from 4 to 3.

1) He can not have done. It is impossible

and

2) The feedback is 3.75, not  three.

You simply looked at the email and it looked like 4 stars.

[petra_r]

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Junko S wrote:

Hi, Felix,

  I just realized that one of my clients I gave an honest review (2.6) changed their review from 4 stars to 3 stars since I didn't change their review/# of stars...

---

He didn't, it is 3.75, you probably thought it was 4 looking at the stars, as visually 3.75 and 4 look about the same.

Unless you enabled the client to change their feedback, there is no way they could have changed anything.

[tlbp]

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Petra R wrote:

---

Junko S wrote:

Hi, Felix,

  I just realized that one of my clients I gave an honest review (2.6) changed their review from 4 stars to 3 stars since I didn't change their review/# of stars...

---

He didn't, it is 3.75, you probably thought it was 4 looking at the stars, as visually 3.75 and 4 look about the same.

Unless you enabled the client to change their feedback, there is no way they could have changed anything.

---

Ah! I wondered how that freelancer came up with their theory.  We can now look forward to it being quoted as "proof" that scores change while posters ignore all evidence to the contrary. 🙄

[martina_plaschka]

The feedback system is double-blind, that means that feedback will only appear once both have given feedback or only one party has and the period for the other had expired.

This ensures that feedback is not reactive, and one party does not give revenge or otherwised biased feedback for the other.

So, no, your client did not change his feedback because of your feedback, that is impossible.  

[petra_r]

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@Joshua O wrote:

Oh, I violated TOS because I accepted.

---

 You did indeed. Your account will be suspended, maybe temporarily, possibly permanently.