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g_urgeghe
Community Member

Bad Customer, how I should behave?

I accepted an assignment with a client that included two jobs, for one I asked  5 working days and for the other the customer gave me 3 weeks. I start work and he makes me talk to his art director (he didn't tell me I should work as an executive). The art director gives me the concepts and after 2 days he writes to me that he is worried that I hadn't presented anything, I told him the customer gave me 5 days and other 3 weeks for the other. He told me he had no time to lose and he wanted everything within 5 days the material. In order not to have negative feedback I decided to please them and work, but it is very difficult to manage this client. I finished the first draft and they paid me the first milestone, now they want all the rest of the material without founding the milestones, they tell me to trust me that they will pay me. I would like to close the contract without going ahead but I am afraid that they will give me negative feedback. Do you have advice?

ACCEPTED SOLUTION


Giacomo U wrote:

Thanks Preston for the reply, I am always polite with clients even when they don't deserve it, I've been doing this job for a long time, I'm trained. I asked them at least 5 times to open the milestones, they pretend not to understand and they tell me not to worry and  push to get the jobs done. I asked at the customer care of upwork but they tell me to kindly ask the customer to found the milestones. 

 

You've acted exactly as you should have imo. This is for the client to resolve, not you. Just seeing the phrase 'trust me' makes me shudder. Either they fund the next milestone or they don't and if they don't, they are asking you to work for free.

 

Can they leave negative feedback? Yes and so can you. If they do fund the next milestone, you still have to consider whether you can then meet what appears to be a pretty unreasonable change to the deadline for the work?


 

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17 REPLIES 17
prestonhunter
Community Member

re: "Bad Customer, how I should behave?"

 

Professionally.

Politely.

 

re: "...now they want all the rest of the material without founding the milestones"

 

Tell them that you want to do everything you can to help with the project, but that you're not allowed to do that.

 

re: "I would like to close the contract without going ahead but I am afraid that they will give me negative feedback. Do you have advice?"

 

The might leave negative feedback.

They might not.

 

But you HAVE already been paid for the first milestone. So that's good.

 

They are NOT offering to pay you for your work. So if you do not do any more work, it is really not your choice. It is theirs.

 

Remember that you are working to earn money. Not feedback stars.

 

It is NOT APPROPRIATE for a client to try to manipulate a freelancer into working for free or refunding money with the threat of bad feedback.

 

I don't even know if this client is doing that. All you told us is that the client asked you to work for free - by asking you to work on the next milestones without funding them first. Obviously that is a very silly thing to do. YOU would never do that as a client, would you? (Of course not.)

 

Upwork DOES NOT ALLOW clients to ask freelancers to work for free. The client is violating Upwork ToS.

 

If it was me PERSONALLY, I would probably close the contract. IF the client is willling to pay for future milestones, then I might continue working, but only with VERY SMALL, VERY DEFINED milestones.

Thanks guys for the reply, I am always polite with clients even when they don't deserve it, I've been doing this job for a long time, I'm trained. I asked them at least 5 times to open the milestones, they pretend not to understand and they tell me not to worry and  push to get the jobs done. I asked at the customer care of upwork but they tell me to kindly ask the customer to found the milestones. 


Giacomo U wrote:

Thanks Preston for the reply, I am always polite with clients even when they don't deserve it, I've been doing this job for a long time, I'm trained. I asked them at least 5 times to open the milestones, they pretend not to understand and they tell me not to worry and  push to get the jobs done. I asked at the customer care of upwork but they tell me to kindly ask the customer to found the milestones. 

 

You've acted exactly as you should have imo. This is for the client to resolve, not you. Just seeing the phrase 'trust me' makes me shudder. Either they fund the next milestone or they don't and if they don't, they are asking you to work for free.

 

Can they leave negative feedback? Yes and so can you. If they do fund the next milestone, you still have to consider whether you can then meet what appears to be a pretty unreasonable change to the deadline for the work?


 

Richard, I wouldn't leave negative feedback but unfortunately the feedback system is blinded, I can leave it neutral and their negative


Giacomo U wrote:
Richard, I wouldn't leave negative feedback but unfortunately the feedback system is blinded, I can leave it neutral and their negative

Why would you be dishonest and leave other freelancers at risk of getting stuck in the same bad situation you're in?

abinadab-agbo
Community Member

Hey,

Upwork cannot protect you if you decide to work outside their given parameters if you'd like to have such protection.

The instruction is, only work for a milestone that's been fully funded.

Do otherwise at your own risk.

 

You may politely request (or rerequest) them to fund the milestone so you can start work on it.

 

Evidently, the Upwork system doesn't allow to fund a second milestone until the first one has been approved and released.

In this case, suggest that they set up a separate contract for that particular milestone., they are trying to con work out of you;  they are perfectly able to fund the remaining milestone as the first has been released.


Abinadab A wrote:

 

In this case, suggest that they set up a separate contract for that particular milestone.

 

This could backfire seriously by creating the opportunity for a bad client on a project that is going south to rate you twice.


 


Tiffany S wrote:

Abinadab A wrote:

 

In this case, suggest that they set up a separate contract for that particular milestone.

 

This could backfire seriously by creating the opportunity for a bad client on a project that is going south to rate you twice.


 


I overlooked something in the original post.

The first milestone has been released, so no need for another contract.

re: "In this case, suggest that they set up a separate contract for that particular milestone."


This can be a good idea.


I usually only work on one-milestone contracts. Even if a client has many milestones, I'll divide them into separate contracts.

 

You could tell the client:

"Yes, I will work on the next task, if you close the current contract and set up the next task as a fixed-price contract for $150.00."

 

If they ask if they can do that as a second milestone, you can say no.

 

If they close the contract, and you see that their feedback is bad, you can simply decline to accept the second contract.

 

Of course there is the possibility that the leave you negative PRIVATE feedback. I can't guarantee that they won't do that. But being able to see for sure that they aren't being punitive or petty with their public feedback is a good thing.

 

Regardless of what you decide to do, keep this in mind:

Any time a client asks you to work for free (as this client has done), it means things have already gone South, and a bad overall outcome is a distinct possibility.

 

And "a client asks you to work for free" DOES INCLUDE when a client asks you to do further milestones WITHOUT FUNDING THEM. Saying "trust me" is not the same thing as actually funding a milestone. Does an honest client tell you "trust me", or does an honest client click a couple buttons on their client-side Upwork page and put money in escrow for you?

re: "Preston for the reply, I am always polite with clients even when they don't deserve it, I've been doing this job for a long time, I'm trained. I asked them at least 5 times to open the milestones, they pretend not to understand and they tell me not to worry and push to get the jobs done. I asked at the customer care of upwork but they tell me to kindly ask the customer to found the milestones. "

 

I appreciate the fact that you are always polite.

 

You clearly discovered that this is not a matter that Upwork Customer Support can help you with.

 

These people know how Upwork works. They have no intention of paying you.

 

This is what I would do:

 

Tell them:

 

"Nathan and Joshua:

Hey guys, I'm so sorry, but something came up and I won't be able to work on the next phase. I'll close the contract now to help you get ready to work with the other people on your team on the next steps."

 

Note that something DID COME UP.

DO NOT tell them what that "something" is.

 

(The "something" being that you figured out that they are trying to rip you off and scam you into working for free.)

I don't think they're scammers, they have 50 jobs done in the past. But they have a bad way to work. I rarely found such people in my career. Obviously they know that we are hostages of feedback

re: "I don't think they're scammers, they have 50 jobs done in the past."

 

If they have 50 jobs done in the past then they certainly know how Upwork works.

 

Fixed-price contracts are not rocket science.

 

You ask a freelancer to do something.

He agrees to do it.

You fund escrow for the payment.

He does the work and submits it.

You release the escrow payment.

 

I think this is very fair.

This is how Upwork intends the system to work.


Upwork does NOT intend for freelancers to work on the "honor system," where clients DO NOT fund escrow and ask the freelancer to work for free.

 

So even if these clients are not "scammers" of the same sort that we usually speak of in the Forum... I do not trust them and I would not work for them.

 

I can't make that decision for anybody else.

 

But I do not work on unfunded milestones.

Yes, I wouldn't want problems. Maybe I kindly ask if we can close the contract because I don't feel comfortable working this way.

re: "Maybe I kindly ask if we can close the contract because I don't feel comfortable working this way."

 

That would be a very professional, transparent and appropriate thing to do.


Giacomo U wrote:
I don't think they're scammers, they have 50 jobs done in the past. But they have a bad way to work. I rarely found such people in my career. Obviously they know that we are hostages of feedback
 
No we're not. Sometimes an FL might get poor feedback which is completely undesereved and yes, that sucks, but you also have the chance to explain your side of things.
 
You have a great profile (your English is better than many people here in the UK...) and super feedback from previous jobs. I've seen plenty of FL's with a 99% JSS with poor comments from some clients amongst their work history, which they've then explained.
 
Ultimately, it is the standard of your work that matters, not one job. Other potential clients will see that.
 
Ps They may not leave any negative feedback at all...
 
 

 


Giacomo U wrote:
I don't think they're scammers, they have 50 jobs done in the past. But they have a bad way to work. I rarely found such people in my career. Obviously they know that we are hostages of feedback

We are hostages only if we show fear and let them behave in these strange ways. Experienced freelancers in Upwork don't let them get away with it. This is exactly why you should be totally honest in your feedback. If they deserve a bad one don't give them a good one just because you are kind-hearted, because that is what makes them strong and gives them the possibility to keep going, with freelancers trusting their bad ways to work. I smell "work for free" here and being in that uneasy situation you could protect others fellas from falling in that trap, being honest in your feedback. That's the feedback point indeed, and that is the reason why it's hidden until both parties rate. Even if they are not intentionally scamming people, no-one wants to get in that kind of situation. If you had known it was gonna be like that would you have accepted the job? I guess not.

kat303
Community Member

Just because they paid the 1st milestone doesn't mean that they will pay the next milestone. I highly doubt that all 50 of the client's jobs were paid to all the freelancers on the "trust me" honor system. Trust is built with working a long time with the same client and having no problems with the client paying promptly. And even then sometimes problems can happen and that long time trust can be broken.

 

Escrow not funded for whatever milestone, then no work, no matter what the client may promise you or try to convince you. 

 

You are new and clients look for new freelancers to scam because new freelancers are naive and trusting and they don't know the procedures of Upwork or what scams are out there.  Is this client a scammer, IMO, yes. They very well know how this site works, but if they can get away without paying you, they will. 

 

If you don't want to work with this client anymore because one person doesn't know what the other person has told you etc, you can end the contract. But wait until those funds that were paid to you, are entered into your account. Then close the contract and politely and professionally tell the client that you feel you are not a good fit for this project and that you think it's in their best interest if they find another freelancer to work with. 

 

Will you get negative feedback. maybe, and maybe not, but if you do, respond to it HONESTLY, and professionally. No ranting, raving etc. Short and sweet. Something in the way, Client would not fund next milestone and I would not start work until that was done. Client gave me negative feedback because of that. 

 

IMO the only way I see this working "financially" is having this as an hourly contract. In hourly contracts escrow isn't involved. The client is billed automatically at the end of the week. And if they don't pay, Upwork will pay you out of their own pocket as long as you follow the procedures of using the Tracker. 

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