Bad client

sashaworrall · ‎08-07-2021

Hey Guys,

I have been working for what seems like forever at all hours of the day on a project for a client. The problem is she doesn't know what she wants, gets pulled in all directions on opinions from other people's conflicting courses, her husband, 10 friends, etc.

All the while she also wants to appeal to everyone with her course which I have made very clear doesn't work. You need to be very specific about who your target market is.

She is a health coach and is making a program but she wants to appeal to women in their 30's who don't care about health, women in their 30's who do care about health, women with chronic disease who need to get off their medications, women in their 70's who are having negative test results back and being diagnosed with health conditions...and more...As you can imagine writing good copy DEPENDS on being very specific about your audience. She needs at least 5 different programs tailored to different audiences.

She also changes her mind the whole time about who she wants to speak to, in terms of wanting to be inclusive with women of all shapes and sizes, backgrounds, skin colors...and then changes to wanting it to be just for rich white women who have loads of cash. Im also doing the design and copy, and every time she sees someone else's website she wants to change the colors to match them. Helping her hone down on who her target market is and get strategic about her choices is not my job and when we began she sounded very sure.

Anyway, this is a 30-page document, and I have made at least 10 versions all free of charge because I just wanted to good review. She messages me every hour of the day and week. My soul is dying here guys I feel like this is never going to end. It has now been 1.5 months longer than the original date. And I have been very clear that the 2nd of Aug was the last date for any final revisions to be submitted to me and I would apply them and have the final document ready for the 7th (today).

She didn't get back to me until 10.30 pm last night with revisions not only from her but also from 5 other friends. Having agreed on colors she liked and that fit with her audience months ago she's now saying the design needs to be different but she doesn't know what.

I don't care about the money. I just want to be free of this woman without having my ratings affected. I have completed 3 out of 4 milestones that I have been paid for. I still have 600 dollars left to be paid upon submission of the final document.

What can I do? Can I politely tell her she is welcome to keep the document we have at the moment, and as she is not 100% happy with it I can end the contract now and she keeps that last $600?

If I suggest this does that mean she gets to leave feedback? And does that affect my profile? Im new to Upwork having moved from my writing job to be freelance. I only have two completed jobs so far so I'm worried a bad review is going to ruin my freelance career 😞

tlbp · ‎08-07-2021

There's lots of good advice in this recent thread on the same topic.

Your situation is a difficult one. JSS takes into account total contract value when weighing the score. Plus, any amount paid on contract means that the public feedback is visible. If you had dozens of reviews at varying price points, one less than stellar set of feeback might not hurt much. But you don't have a lot of reviews yet.

How you want to handle your situation will depends on your personalitiy and risk tolerance. Giving up all the earnings would be an expensive solution and wouldn't eliminate the JSS impact (although it could reduce the contract's influence due to dollar-weighing.) I would try to exit without triggering a bad review from the client.

When somoene is workign on a passion project, particluarly if it is one that they are investing their savings into making happen, they are very cautious and it can be difficult for them to commit. The more they believe their future depends on getting this one shot right, the more anxious they will be. You may need to focus on where your client is emotionally and helping them get to where they want to be.

Remind them that digital products aren't permanent. She can test something for 6 weeks or 6 months and if it doesn't work take the lessons from that test and reiterate. Plus, she doesn't need to make revisions at your rates. You've laid the foundation, she can probably hire someone for much less to make small changes like color, font, little rewordings. Win-win.

sashaworrall · ‎08-07-2021

Thank you for such a long reply. I really appreciate it.

She is by no means a horrible person, in fact I'm sure she is lovely and my
communication with her has been nothing but positive! So at least she
thinks I'm a very nice, kind person...I hope!

I have messaged her saying something along the lines of "as you are not
100% happy with the document I don't feel comfortable charging you for that
last 600. As a freelancer, I can do that on my side of the contract so you
get the $600 final milestone back 🙂

I am very sorry and very sad we haven't landed directly on the sweet spot!
I really believe in your program and enjoyed working with you immensely."

I hope she accepts that and I can cancel the last milestone in escrow and
she doesn't leave me a bad review! Fingers crossed.

roberty1y · ‎08-07-2021

When you're working for someone like that, it's a job that should be paid by the hour, not by project. Then the client can change her plans to her heart's content. She's paying for her inability to make up her mind.

dsmgdesign · ‎08-07-2021

Robert Y wrote:
When you're working for someone like that, it's a job that should be paid by the hour, not by project. Then the client can change her plans to her heart's content. She's paying for her inability to make up her mind.

Bad idea. When the client is as bad as the OP explained, it's time to move on. There's better fish to catch. Trust me.

dsmgdesign · ‎08-07-2021

Sasha W wrote:
Hey Guys,

I have been working for what seems like forever at all hours of the day on a project for a client. The problem is she doesn't know what she wants, gets pulled in all directions on opinions from other people's conflicting courses, her husband, 10 friends, etc.
All the while she also wants to appeal to everyone with her course which I have made very clear doesn't work. You need to be very specific about who your target market is.
She is a health coach and is making a program but she wants to appeal to women in their 30's who don't care about health, women in their 30's who do care about health, women with chronic disease who need to get off their medications, women in their 70's who are having negative test results back and being diagnosed with health conditions...and more...As you can imagine writing good copy DEPENDS on being very specific about your audience. She needs at least 5 different programs tailored to different audiences.
She also changes her mind the whole time about who she wants to speak to, in terms of wanting to be inclusive with women of all shapes and sizes, backgrounds, skin colors...and then changes to wanting it to be just for rich white women who have loads of cash. Im also doing the design and copy, and every time she sees someone else's website she wants to change the colors to match them. Helping her hone down on who her target market is and get strategic about her choices is not my job and when we began she sounded very sure.

Anyway, this is a 30-page document, and I have made at least 10 versions all free of charge because I just wanted to good review. She messages me every hour of the day and week. My soul is dying here guys I feel like this is never going to end. It has now been 1.5 months longer than the original date. And I have been very clear that the 2nd of Aug was the last date for any final revisions to be submitted to me and I would apply them and have the final document ready for the 7th (today).
She didn't get back to me until 10.30 pm last night with revisions not only from her but also from 5 other friends. Having agreed on colors she liked and that fit with her audience months ago she's now saying the design needs to be different but she doesn't know what.

I don't care about the money. I just want to be free of this woman without having my ratings affected. I have completed 3 out of 4 milestones that I have been paid for. I still have 600 dollars left to be paid upon submission of the final document.

What can I do? Can I politely tell her she is welcome to keep the document we have at the moment, and as she is not 100% happy with it I can end the contract now and she keeps that last $600?
If I suggest this does that mean she gets to leave feedback? And does that affect my profile? Im new to Upwork having moved from my writing job to be freelance. I only have two completed jobs so far so I'm worried a bad review is going to ruin my freelance career 😞

If you really want out, here's what I would do. First, have an honest conversation with her. Explain that you think you've done as much as you can with the project, and you recommend that maybe someone else would be a better fit than you. Then, YOU close the contract. Don't let the client do it, because then they have to leave feedback. If you have a good conversation with the client, and you close the contract, 9 times out of 10, the client will just move on...leaving no review at all. Then it won't negatively impact your JSS. Upwork will just ignore it in the calculation. Ofcourse you might get a spiteful client who will leave a bad review even if you close it, but that doesn't happen often, and is less likely if you have an honest conversation and leave with a mutual understanding. And, for goodness sakes, if you have done all the work, you deserve full payment, so I'd go for that too.