Bad experience

karinskold · ‎04-22-2021

I just have to shake off some bad experiences..

Being asked to do free illustration samples again..And when telling me I can't do that client becomes offensive. The 4 other artists did without asking for payment so..Making it look as it's me being really stupid.

I told her I do this for a living..she told me she does too..and it goes on...

When you can explain that this is a rule here to not ask for free samples...she makes you feel it's her right.

I don't know, it seems it has become a rule here to ask for all sorts of mockups, samples, art, forms.... And its frustrating!

Is there not a sign or something when writing in info about the job that this is not allowed?

It becomes such frustration when having to take all sorts of offensive and silly messages from clients telling you are wrong to defend your own rights and work.

kinector · ‎04-22-2021

Karin, I understand your frustration.

I'd advise you to just skip it. Don't worry about it. If people ask for freebies, you just say it is your policy not to consider such projects.

Technically, by Upwork's rules, no client is allowed to ask for free work, so you should report every such client. Of course, it is a complete waste of time for the freelancer, so the best way is to avoid all even meeting those kinds of clients in the first place.

This issue occurs when you work in the lower end of the market. So, the only permanent solution is to level up and start only offering something that is worth much more (your rate seems to be $12/h at the moment).

Cheap clients don't even try to hire expensive guys. Check out my profile for reference. Nobody asks me for freebies.

karinskold · ‎04-22-2021

Thanks Mikko!

I will go and raise my hourly rate now.

Could not find your profile page to have a look...

jr-translation · ‎04-22-2021

Karin S wrote:
I just have to shake off some bad experiences..
Being asked to do free illustration samples again..And when telling me I can't do that client becomes offensive. The 4 other artists did without asking for payment so..Making it look as it's me being really stupid.
I told her I do this for a living..she told me she does too..and it goes on...

When you can explain that this is a rule here to not ask for free samples...she makes you feel it's her right.
I don't know, it seems it has become a rule here to ask for all sorts of mockups, samples, art, forms.... And its frustrating!

Is there not a sign or something when writing in info about the job that this is not allowed?

It becomes such frustration when having to take all sorts of offensive and silly messages from clients telling you are wrong to defend your own rights and work.

I think that is because too many clients and freelancers do not bother to read the ToS. Clients might not violate them "deliberately" but since freelancers do not bother to read the ToS themselves and educate the clients. Some clients just prefer to shoot the messenger rather than doing their homework.
I have a client that told me to subcontact on an hourly contract. When I told her that it is a ToS violation and I cannot do it her reply was: "You need to hire a proofreadera and it should be at no extra cost for me."

Meaning she is a) telling me to subcontract on an hourly contract and b) asking not only for free work but expects me to hire and pay another freelancer out of my pocket. I am so looking forward to use my perk.

feed_my_eyes · ‎04-22-2021

Jennifer R wrote:
I think that is because too many clients and freelancers do not bother to read the ToS. Clients might not violate them "deliberately" but since freelancers do not bother to read the ToS themselves and educate the clients. Some clients just prefer to shoot the messenger rather than doing their homework.

Well, it's difficult to tell clients that asking for free work is wrong, when you know perfectly well that a dozen other freelancers will have already offered to do just that, or already attached the client's finished project with their bid. I've stopped even applying for projects in which a client gives detailed instructions in their post and/or attaches all of the files that they need formatted, because I assume that some numpty will go ahead and do the whole thing for free.

jr-translation · ‎04-22-2021

Christine A wrote:
Jennifer R wrote:
I think that is because too many clients and freelancers do not bother to read the ToS. Clients might not violate them "deliberately" but since freelancers do not bother to read the ToS themselves and educate the clients. Some clients just prefer to shoot the messenger rather than doing their homework.
Well, it's difficult to tell clients that asking for free work is wrong, when you know perfectly well that a dozen other freelancers will have already offered to do just that, or already attached the client's finished project with their bid. I've stopped even applying for projects in which a client gives detailed instructions in their post and/or attaches all of the files that they need formatted, because I assume that some numpty will go ahead and do the whole thing for free.

I guess that depends in the field you are working. But I no longer look at jobs that can be send with the proposal.
I remember that one of my first proposals were for a very short translation and the clients replied to my proposal that she was sorry but someone had already send it to her free of charge (probably hoping for future job). Today that message would be worth 10 connects.

karinskold · ‎04-22-2021

True!!

My experience too. It seems pretty common many do the free samples. Its obvious.

And it is annoying too!

karinskold · ‎04-22-2021

Yes, and perhaps some freelancers are so eager to have the project so they just do it for free.

feed_my_eyes · ‎04-22-2021

Sometimes clients are new and genuinely think that it's fine to ask for "samples", but if you politely tell them that they'll need to hire you before you do any work, and then they get angry, just flag their projects and report them. I wouldn't enter into a long discussion with a client like this and try to persuade them to become a decent person; just be thankful that you didn't end up working with them. Even if one of those other freelancers ends up getting hired (unlikely), they'll probably end up regretting it.

karinskold · ‎04-22-2021

Very true Christine.

I feel kind of relieved afterward. And when the irritation and anger have calmed down. 😉

petra_r · ‎04-22-2021

Karin S wrote:

Being asked to do free illustration samples again..And when telling me I can't do that client becomes offensive. The 4 other artists did without asking for payment so..Making it look as it's me being really stupid.
I told her I do this for a living..she told me she does too..and it goes on...

Say no and move on. Don't argue, don't tell clients that you do this for a living. Tell them what you would charge for the samples, if they say they want it free, politely refer them to the terms of service and withdraw your proposal and flag the job post as inappropriate. One sentence. No need to have a pointless fight.

Karin S wrote:
It becomes such frustration when having to take all sorts of offensive and silly messages from clients telling you are wrong to defend your own rights and work.

If you don't argue with those people, there won't be a any of that.

karinskold · ‎04-22-2021

True.

But I still think I have to tell them. To remind and to say it's not OK. And we react when it happens.

tlbp · ‎04-22-2021

Most roadways have speed limits. There are signs posted. People who want to drive at speeds that exceed the limit still do so. You can't stop someone from trying to break the rules. You can only punish those that you catch.
Don't engage in arguments with these "clients." Just say no and move on to real clients with real money to spend.