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susanwinlowmedia
Community Member

Bait and switch

Hello all,

 

I need some advice. I put in a proposal for a job that paid by the hour for three to five articles per day, and I must agree to five days a week.. I'm in the interview stage, and it's now switched to only $20 per article. The articles are only 250 words long, but some can involve some extensive research. The rating is good on this client, but this is the second time I've been involved in one of these bait and switch deals. Does this give an underlying story about the client, as in "stay away," or can someone give me some insight as to why they do this, and how best to proceed when financially it's way less than expected. I'm new here, but I still don't want to just take anything.

 

Advice?

14 REPLIES 14
mcpilot
Community Member

I can only tell you my personal position on this. I do not take fixed price jobs. I interview for hourly and in those cases where an offer is made and the client has switched to a fixed price, I decline the offer. 

 

It sounds like perhaps in this case the offer has not yet been made? Either way, if it was posted as an hourly job and the client is now trying to push you into a piecemeal contract, my gut says it's going to be a problem moving forward. 


 

It sounds like perhaps in this case the offer has not yet been made? Either way, if it was posted as an hourly job and the client is now trying to push you into a piecemeal contract, my gut says it's going to be a problem moving forward. 


It's not an official offer. We're still in the interviewing stage. He has been very communicative answering all my questions - and I don't "think" it'll be that bad, because there is a lot of freedom and leeway with the writing. But it is less than I originally thought. I did put some additional numbers down, so we'll see what he says. 

tlbp
Community Member

I have seen other posts mentioning this as a complaint, the client posts an hourly gig but asks for a fixed-price rate. Do you feel that earning $25 per 250 words wouldn't get you to the amount per piece that you would desire or are you not comfortable with taking the risk of spending too much time per piece? 
As far as how to handle the bait and switch, your only choices are to try to negotiate the contract back to an hourly one or walk away. Can you offer the client a maximum time per piece? For example, ask to bill by the hour but agree that you will spend no more than X hours per piece? I would imagine that the client is seeking cost predictability. 

 

I think it's the risk of spending too much time per article and it not being cost effective at $20/article. If he wants three to five per day with a minimimum committment of five days a week, I could seriously come out on the losing end if the research takes more than 30 minutes. I've asked him another series of questions, which should answer a lot of my time and in-depth concerns. It should answer my question as to whether it's worth it or not. If not, I will attempt to negotiate, as you suggested. Your idea might also be a good compromise. Thank you!

 


Susan W wrote:

I think it's the risk of spending too much time per article and it not being cost effective at $20/article. If he wants three to five per day with a minimimum committment of five days a week, I could seriously come out on the losing end if the research takes more than 30 minutes. I've asked him another series of questions, which should answer a lot of my time and in-depth concerns. It should answer my question as to whether it's worth it or not. If not, I will attempt to negotiate, as you suggested. Your idea might also be a good compromise. Thank you!

 


Do you think that's likely, based on the type of content you're being asked to write? I'm having a hard time imagining how a 250-word piece could possibly require more than 10 minutes of research unless you're being asked to summarize highly technical information or something like that. 


Tiffany S wrote:

Susan W wrote:

I think it's the risk of spending too much time per article and it not being cost effective at $20/article. If he wants three to five per day with a minimimum committment of five days a week, I could seriously come out on the losing end if the research takes more than 30 minutes. I've asked him another series of questions, which should answer a lot of my time and in-depth concerns. It should answer my question as to whether it's worth it or not. If not, I will attempt to negotiate, as you suggested. Your idea might also be a good compromise. Thank you!

 


Do you think that's likely, based on the type of content you're being asked to write? I'm having a hard time imagining how a 250-word piece could possibly require more than 10 minutes of research unless you're being asked to summarize highly technical information or something like that. 


It depends on how long the research takes and how long it takes to get certain pieces of information. No, 250 words isn't much at all, but having been a journalist at a newspaper for a very long time, I know that one particular piece of information that is required for each article might not ever be forthcoming in these particular cases, or at least not in the timeframe he's looking for. From conversations with him, he's expecting us to call around for that information, if needs be, and he does understand it can be difficult at times. If I don't get that one piece of information, the article is no good to him and will not be accepted. I understand his terms and why it's necessary, but waiting on this information could toss it out of the realm of timely and therefore make the article useless. That's wasted time on my part, and needs to be accunted for in the pay, so, in this case, it's important to consider what is needed in the article to make it useful to the client. 


Susan W wrote:


 From conversations with him, he's expecting us to call around for that information


Oh, yeah, no. You don't get on the phone for a $20 piece. The only way those are profitable is if you look up a couple of quick stats and knock out 3-4/hour.

a_lipsey
Community Member


Susan W wrote:

Hello all,

 

I need some advice. I put in a proposal for a job that paid by the hour for three to five articles per day, and I must agree to five days a week.. I'm in the interview stage, and it's now switched to only $20 per article. The articles are only 250 words long, but some can involve some extensive research. The rating is good on this client, but this is the second time I've been involved in one of these bait and switch deals. Does this give an underlying story about the client, as in "stay away," or can someone give me some insight as to why they do this, and how best to proceed when financially it's way less than expected. I'm new here, but I still don't want to just take anything.

 

Advice?


I don't mind them changing to fixed price if it still meets the up-front estimate I give on the number of hours it takes to complete the project. However, if they offer a fixed price that is below my estimate of what the hourly cost is, then I consider it a bait and switch and thank them for the offer and say "I can do this for X fixed price, or hourly. But not at the rate you proposed." I had a conversation with a potential client that was supposed to be hourly, and I told him my estimate on the number of hours it would take. He then came back and offered a fixed price contract that was a total of less than what it would take me at my hourly estimate, so I would absolutely be operating at a loss. Oh and tried to offer me a commission. I felt like I had explained enough of my value and worth to him, and we'd had enough discussions that this felt insulting to me and also a huge red flag that working with him was going to be just like this: saying one thing but then saying another. So I thanked him for the offer but declined and moved on. He never came back to negotiate, which said a lot to me. 



I don't mind them changing to fixed price if it still meets the up-front estimate I give on the number of hours it takes to complete the project. However, if they offer a fixed price that is below my estimate of what the hourly cost is, then I consider it a bait and switch and thank them for the offer and say "I can do this for X fixed price, or hourly. But not at the rate you proposed." I had a conversation with a potential client that was supposed to be hourly, and I told him my estimate on the number of hours it would take. He then came back and offered a fixed price contract that was a total of less than what it would take me at my hourly estimate, so I would absolutely be operating at a loss. Oh and tried to offer me a commission. I felt like I had explained enough of my value and worth to him, and we'd had enough discussions that this felt insulting to me and also a huge red flag that working with him was going to be just like this: saying one thing but then saying another. So I thanked him for the offer but declined and moved on. He never came back to negotiate, which said a lot to me. 


Thank you for sharing your experience. It was definitely helpful. The fixed rate doesn't translate to his original hourly, for sure, but it's in line with what other clients pay fixed rate for the same length of article. He also has the box checked that he's willing to pay more, which isn't in line with the "expert" classification he's after. I posed some additional rates, so we'll see what happens.

When this has happened to me, the client usually asks me what I would charge to complete the project as fixed price.


It strikes me as odd that he knew what he wanted to pay per article but didn't set the job up that way.  If he knew $20 was his price then he should have posted a fixed price job.


Julie J wrote:

When this has happened to me, the client usually asks me what I would charge to complete the project as fixed price.


It strikes me as odd that he knew what he wanted to pay per article but didn't set the job up that way.  If he knew $20 was his price then he should have posted a fixed price job.


Thank you, this is what I meant. When they know what their total budget is before hand but list it as hourly and open-ended, and then try to reel you in at a lower rate. That is a bait and switch. With the client I mentioned, he didn't ask me for a fixed price bid, even though my detailed proposal (which I submit after I am interviewed and has estimates for each deliverable) is easily converted into fixed price. So my price is the same either way. I think for me it's whether or not they ask if you can give a fixed price bid versus if you'd be willing to work for peanuts...


Julie J wrote:

When this has happened to me, the client usually asks me what I would charge to complete the project as fixed price.


It strikes me as odd that he knew what he wanted to pay per article but didn't set the job up that way.  If he knew $20 was his price then he should have posted a fixed price job.


This was exactly my thought. He definitely had  price figure in mind, but he did not set up the job that way. It seemed odd that he didn't. 

martina_plaschka
Community Member


Susan W wrote:

Hello all,

 

I need some advice. I put in a proposal for a job that paid by the hour for three to five articles per day, and I must agree to five days a week.. I'm in the interview stage, and it's now switched to only $20 per article. The articles are only 250 words long, but some can involve some extensive research. The rating is good on this client, but this is the second time I've been involved in one of these bait and switch deals. Does this give an underlying story about the client, as in "stay away," or can someone give me some insight as to why they do this, and how best to proceed when financially it's way less than expected. I'm new here, but I still don't want to just take anything.

 

Advice?


I would definitely stay away from clients that bait and switch. They are looking to pay little, and many newbies are willing to do a lot to get their first jobs. I don't recommend it, you are unhappy, and just because the client is getting his job done for little money does not mean he will leave great feedback in the end. 



 


I would definitely stay away from clients that bait and switch. They are looking to pay little, and many newbies are willing to do a lot to get their first jobs. I don't recommend it, you are unhappy, and just because the client is getting his job done for little money does not mean he will leave great feedback in the end. 


Thank you for validating my thoughts! I checked how he left feedback, and it's really nonexistent; not even stars. 

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