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navidzafar
Community Member

Both Freelance and Client used the same laptop

Good day,

 

Few days back a walk-in customer came to me and asked to file his Tax return. I told him about Upwork and asked to do it through Upwork platform so that I could build my work profile.

He created his account, posted a job and paid funds using the same laptop that I used for completing the assignment.

It was a geniune and fair transaction. 

My concen is:

1- Is there any violation of Upwork Term of Services?

2- Is it ok if a Freelancer and a client use the same Laptop?

 

Thanks

ACCEPTED SOLUTION
kochubei_valeria
Community Member

Navid and others,

 

In general, if a freelancer would like to use Upwork to manage their contracts and payments with a client who isn’t yet registered on Upwork, they can certainly do it. That said, attempting to or actually manipulating or misusing the feedback system and/or offering services for the sole purpose of obtaining positive feedback of any kind is against Upwork TOS. For more information about that, please refer here

 

We won't be able to comment on a specific situation or share details about the status of a specific account owner. Upwork team will be reaching out directly to the account owners to discuss that with them.

 

~ Valeria
Upwork

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23 REPLIES 23
prestonhunter
Community Member

This was inappropriate.

 

Upwork has automated algorithms designed to detect inappropriate behavior. You could have triggered a flag and an investigation by doing this.

Thanks you Preston,

What to do now? I didn't have any negative intentions behind it.


Navid Z wrote:,

What to do now? 


Refund the money in full to remove the contract and the unfair advantage from your profile and hope you don't get suspended.

petra_r
Community Member


Navid Z wrote:

1- Is there any violation of Upwork Term of Services?

2- Is it ok if a Freelancer and a client use the same Laptop?


1 - Yes.

2 - No

 


Navid Z wrote:

It was a geniune and fair transaction. 


It wasn't as it was only done on Upwork for you to gain an unfair advantage over other new freelancers.

 

Got it. Thanks.


Petra R wrote:

Navid Z wrote:

1- Is there any violation of Upwork Term of Services?

2- Is it ok if a Freelancer and a client use the same Laptop?


1 - Yes.

2 - No

 


Navid Z wrote:

It was a geniune and fair transaction. 


It wasn't as it was only done on Upwork for you to gain an unfair advantage over other new freelancers.

 


But I thought Upwork was encouraging it.

https://community.upwork.com/t5/Freelancers/Bringing-client-to-upwork-for-0-fee/m-p/737007


Marc C wrote:  But I thought Upwork was encouraging it.

Real, genuine clients. Not "I want feedback on my profile so I get my pal/brother/neighbour to fake-hire me on my own laptop and leave me great feedback" kind of clients.

 

The link you included is for top rated freelancers, who generally wouldn't have to resort to fake-hiring. Here the sole purpose was profile-building (he happily admitted that) and that's forbidden.

I understand. But he also said it was a genuine customer walking in, not a brother/pal. I can't just assume he is lying on the genuineness of the contract only because he admitted the obvious (that he wants to build-up the profile, like everyone else when starting).

 

By saying "so that I could build my work profile" you are not implying there is no other transaction and the contract was faked. It may very well mean "I could do the job outside Upwork and pay no fees, but I want to bring it in and I am willing to pay the 20% from my pocket just to build my profile". In his sentence, the "solely" is related to the fact of bringing it in, not to this being the only benefit of the transaction and, thus, a fake contract.

 

I could also conclude the job is genuine because he charged $20 and has a $6/h rate. 3 hours for taxing may be believable, depending on the type of client. They are both from Lahore, which matches his description of the problem here. If they'd want to fake it they could have easily used at least another town and a different computer to avoid flags. But all of that is still not enough for me to conclude anything. He could have given back the $20 on site and they could just be not very good at faking.

 

There is room for suspicion, indeed, and Upwork has many other sources of information to figure it out.

 

If it was indeed a genuine contract I think using the same computer is the biggest issue here and a very bad idea to say the least, especially for your first job. If it is not explicitly against the TOS per se, I wouldn't be surprised if it raised a flag leading to investigation or a more thorough follow-up of this profile.

 

In that is case, the first recommendation would be obvious, don't use the same computer ever again. You may be under constant watch now and you don't want anything you do raising further suspicion. 


Marc C wrote:

I understand. But he also said it was a genuine customer walking in, not a brother/pal. I can't just assume he is lying on the genuineness of the contract only because he admitted the obvious (that he wants to build-up the profile, like everyone else when starting).

 


Then you should ask yourself what you would have done in the same situation. Imagine that you run such a well-established business that you have a bricks-and-mortar office in which you can get customers who simply walk in off the street. (If that were me, I wouldn't be on Upwork in the first place, but what do I know.) A client comes in and you do a job for him. Wouldn't you then simply ask the client to pay you, since he's sitting right there in your office? Or would you hand the customer your computer, ask him to go through the process of registering a profile and hire you that way (which I, as a client, would find extremely bizarre and a waste of my time), and force them pay additional, unnecessary exchange rate charges by paying in U.S. dollars instead of the local currency? Do you seriously think that a geniune client would agree to this?

 


Marc C wrote:

He could have given back the $20 on site and they could just be not very good at faking.

 


That would be the more likely explanation.


Christine A wrote:

Marc C wrote:

I understand. But he also said it was a genuine customer walking in, not a brother/pal. I can't just assume he is lying on the genuineness of the contract only because he admitted the obvious (that he wants to build-up the profile, like everyone else when starting).

 


Then you should ask yourself what you would have done in the same situation. Imagine that you run such a well-established business that you have a bricks-and-mortar office in which you can get customers who simply walk in off the street. (If that were me, I wouldn't be on Upwork in the first place, but what do I know.) A client comes in and you do a job for him. Wouldn't you then simply ask the client to pay you, since he's sitting right there in your office? Or would you hand the customer your computer, ask him to go through the process of registering a profile and hire you that way (which I, as a client, would find extremely bizarre and a waste of my time), and force them pay additional, unnecessary exchange rate charges by paying in U.S. dollars instead of the local currency? Do you seriously think that a geniune client would agree to this?

 


Marc C wrote:

He could have given back the $20 on site and they could just be not very good at faking.

 


That would be the more likely explanation.


Yes, I do agree it looks very suspicious. All I'm saying is people should be innocent until proven guilty and not the other way around. As you say, "what do I know" about how people work and make business in Pakistan? nothing. Just because I wouldn't do something in a particular way, it doesn't mean everyone claiming to do differently than me are liars.

 

And, as Petra said, it doesn't matter what I think. My place here is not to judge and decide if someone is guilty or innocent, that is Upwork's job. What I can do is assume everyone is telling the truth and give my opinion about it. I think that is better than assuming they lie just because they do something I don't understand.


Marc C wrote:

My place here is not to judge and decide if someone is guilty or innocent, that is Upwork's job. What I can do is assume everyone is telling the truth and give my opinion about it.

That's exactly everyone has been doing - giving an opinion about it. If the OP didn't want any opinions, I don't think that he would have posted his question in a public forum. 


Marc C wrote:

. But all of that is still not enough for me to conclude anything.


Upwork suspend people for those stunts all the time. I have little to no interest in whether the story is accurate as told or not.  It's better not to get suspended  in the first place by not pulling such stunts than get suspended and then trying to clear your name with "the guy randomly walked in from the street so I made him create an Upwork account on my computer and hire me" stories... So even if I WERE willing to believe the story, it doesn't really matter


Marc C wrote:

I understand. But he also said it was a genuine customer walking in, not a brother/pal. I can't just assume he is lying on the genuineness of the contract only because he admitted the obvious (that he wants to build-up the profile, like everyone else when starting).

 


I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.

a_lipsey
Community Member


Jennifer M wrote:

Marc C wrote:

I understand. But he also said it was a genuine customer walking in, not a brother/pal. I can't just assume he is lying on the genuineness of the contract only because he admitted the obvious (that he wants to build-up the profile, like everyone else when starting).

 


I have some swamp land in Florida to sell you.


All land in Florida is swamp land. Or as we prefer to call it "marsh land".  

Marc, I am really thankful for your positive thinking and understanding my stance well.

lysis10
Community Member


Navid Z wrote:

Good day,

 

Few days back a walk-in customer came to me and asked to file his Tax return. I told him about Upwork and asked to do it through Upwork platform so that I could build my work profile.

He created his account, posted a job and paid funds using the same laptop that I used for completing the assignment.

It was a geniune and fair transaction. 

My concen is:

1- Is there any violation of Upwork Term of Services?

2- Is it ok if a Freelancer and a client use the same Laptop?

 

Thanks


lmao god I love Upwork forums on Sundays.

Regarding the question about why this is inappropriate regardless of if this was a genuine client or not...

 

The technical term is avoiding the "appearance of impropriety."

 

Anyone interested in the topic can do a Google search.

 

That is the phrase used widely in business and legal literature. You can also research the "sin of scandal," to use the Catholic phrase. Essentially the same thing.

yitwail
Community Member


Jennifer M wrote:


lmao god I love Upwork forums on Sundays.


especially JSS Sundays.😈

__________________________________________________
"No good deed goes unpunished." -- Clare Boothe Luce

In fairness, I'm about 95% sold on just pushing everything through Upwork. Dealing with my first off-platform clients right now and collections and contracting is an annoyance.  Finding it easier when we've got escrow, standard rules, and options for handling client drama beyond pre-payment and asking nicely...

 

But then again, my clients can afford their own laptop...


John H wrote:

But then again, my clients can afford their own laptop...


They likely also don't randomly meander in from the street, do they?

You mean like this?

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Masaccio_-_St_Peter_Healing_the_Sick_with_his_Shadow_-_WGA14...

 

I've been told my shadow has an odd effect on clients, inspiring them to sign up for $25 gigs on my laptop. It's very unnerving. I should consult with a specialist for treatment...

abinadab-agbo
Community Member

Looks like OP's been banned, correct?

kochubei_valeria
Community Member

Navid and others,

 

In general, if a freelancer would like to use Upwork to manage their contracts and payments with a client who isn’t yet registered on Upwork, they can certainly do it. That said, attempting to or actually manipulating or misusing the feedback system and/or offering services for the sole purpose of obtaining positive feedback of any kind is against Upwork TOS. For more information about that, please refer here

 

We won't be able to comment on a specific situation or share details about the status of a specific account owner. Upwork team will be reaching out directly to the account owners to discuss that with them.

 

~ Valeria
Upwork
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