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Budgets too low

Community Guru
Katrina B Member Since: Jan 9, 2011
21 of 38

We see the word "fair" a lot in the forums. Upwork is not in the business of being fair. They are in the business of making money. If a client only wants to pay $3/hr, then that's their decision. If Upwork puts a $5/hr minimum that client is going to go elsewhere. 

 

Also, this is business, it's not Upwork's job to be "fair". There are many, many high paying clients on the platform. There are many low paying clients on the platform. I decide who I work for and what my price is. As others have said, I also have gotten many projects where clients stated very low budgets and I convinced them I'm worth what I'm charging.

 

Again, no such thing as "Fair" in business. 

"Fairness is giving all people the treatment they earn and deserve. It doesn't mean treating everyone alike-Coach John Wooden"
Community Guru
Melanie H Member Since: Nov 2, 2017
22 of 38

@Katrina B wrote:

We see the word "fair" a lot in the forums. Upwork is not in the business of being fair. They are in the business of making money. If a client only wants to pay $3/hr, then that's their decision. If Upwork puts a $5/hr minimum that client is going to go elsewhere. 

 

Also, this is business, it's not Upwork's job to be "fair". There are many, many high paying clients on the platform. There are many low paying clients on the platform. I decide who I work for and what my price is. As others have said, I also have gotten many projects where clients stated very low budgets and I convinced them I'm worth what I'm charging.

 

Again, no such thing as "Fair" in business. 


 

1. I agree that "fair" doesn't enter into it.

2. Upwork does want to make money, which is why the lower-paying jobs would seem less productive for Upwork as well as for the freelancer. Upwork is going to make less money, too. OTOH, we already know that's Upwork's minimum.

3. The OP wasn't actually even speaking of $3, but actually, lower than $2. That IS pretty surprising. But I do think she got some answers as regards that aspect. Smiley Happy 

Community Guru
Jennifer M Member Since: May 17, 2015
23 of 38
Budgets are for the weak and I prey on the weak.
Community Guru
Melanie H Member Since: Nov 2, 2017
24 of 38

@Jennifer M wrote:
Budgets are for the weak and I prey on the weak.

 

You prey on people who have budgets?

 

Do most people you know not have one? Smiley Wink

 

Do you live in a commune, by any chance?

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
25 of 38

@Melanie H wrote:

2. Upwork does want to make money, which is why the lower-paying jobs would seem less productive for Upwork as well as for the freelancer.


The "lower hourly rate" jobs are actually perfectly profitable if they are long term, ongoing, steady ones, and many of them are. There are many, many thousand freelancers working 40+ hours a week for clients and those are profitable because they cause little or no additional cost.

 

The unprofitable contracts tend to be small new ones with a potential to go **bleep** up.

Once a client has worked with a freelancer for a few months chances of expensive disasters become lower.

 

$ 3 an hour sounds ridiculous to many, but someone doing hard physical labour in a country like Bangladesh gets $ 0.20 an hour, and the average pay for a medical doctor in the Philippines is around $ 4 an hour.

 

That is NOT an excuse for paying slave labour rates, but there is a lot more to it than what those in more fortunate countries looking down their noses at the $ 3 an hour freelancers tend to see.

 

There is a place for all levels of freelancers. Freelancing has been a way out of poverty for so many people in underdeveloped countries, has empowered women in countries where they traditionally don't work and thus given them a voice and potentially independence...

 

Those of us who are not in the same market segment need to stop fearing them as competition. They are not.

 

If you are a $ 25 an hour freelancer (as the OP is) your competition is not the $ 3 an hour one. You will never both be seriously considered for the same gig. Ever.

 

Your competition are the $ 22 an hour and the $ 29 an hour ones.

Community Guru
Melanie H Member Since: Nov 2, 2017
26 of 38

@Petra R wrote:

 

 

There is a place for all levels of freelancers. Freelancing has been a way out of poverty for so many people in underdeveloped countries, has empowered women in countries where they traditionally don't work and thus given them a voice and potentially independence...

 

We're agreeing here, if you read my posts. Smiley Happy This is pretty much exactly what I said: that there is a place for very low offers, and very low pay-accepting clients. That place just happens to not be the OP's place. 

 

Those of us who are not in the same market segment need to stop fearing them as competition. They are not.

 

That's what I said too - that the OP can and should simply pass by those, and go on to a better fit. But you then supported going after the low-paying jobs and simply bidding higher. That would seem to indicate you agree with the OP that they are the competition. I'm not sure I am understanding this correctly.

 

If you are a $ 25 an hour freelancer (as the OP is) your competition is not the $ 3 an hour one. You will never both be seriously considered for the same gig. 

 

I am. And no, I do not think of the $3/hour contractor is my competion, ever. I illustrated that above. But you just said a moment ago that both WILL seriously be considered for the same gig, or if not $3/hour specifically, you demonstrated that you bid eight times times higher than the proposed amount - the OP's example equivalent being, she'd see a $3/hour job and bid - $24/hour - and got the job; I was then admonished by another poster not to lead contractors from this method. Smiley Happy

 

So, yeah. I admit I'm a little confused. But we have actually agreed on several points and I stand by what I said earlier: I DON'T (personally) recommend that the OP go into the much lower-paying jobs and bid up expecting them to take her and at the same time, I DON'T think she should concern herself that they exist or think she won't get jobs that meet her *own* conditions because of them (paraphrasing). It is as you are now saying (contrary to your prior assertion but then again, I'm not sure how your example went down, whether the client was already flexible on the amount, whether the amount was for a different period of time than you bid on, etc.): "You will never both be seriously considered for the same gig."


 

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
27 of 38

Melanie, I wasn't disagreeing with you Smiley Wink Just spinning thoughts further along. Usually people notice when I disagree with them Smiley Wink

 

 

Community Guru
Tiffany S Member Since: Jan 15, 2016
28 of 38

@Melanie H wrote:

 

 I DON'T (personally) recommend that the OP go into the much lower-paying jobs and bid up expecting them to take her and at the same time, 

 

I think the wisdom of this approach depends entirely on the nature of the work and the qualifications required. I also agree there is a limit. For example, I won't bid on a job that wants a blog post written for $6--we're just too far apart, and I can tell by the budget that they're not concerned about anything I bring to the table that makes it worth paying me more.

 

However, if I see a job posting looking for ten 500-word law firm web pages for $350, I might very well bid that at my regular rate ($850), and I might very well get the job. If I get the job, it's because my credentials and experience are so far superior to those of the people bidding at the posted rate that the client immediately sees that it's worth paying more to have me do the job.

 

This, perhaps, explains the apparent discrepancy in the "are/aren't in competition with..." statement made by another poster. For decent clients, your competition isn't based on price. A client may post a job at $25, not knowing what it's worth, and may get bids from $15 to $500 or more. But, the freelancers in that pool will segment out by characteristics other than price. If the client is interested in quality, the $15 freelancers will turn out not to be what she's looking for. If she's really serious about her budget, the $50+ freelancers will never be in the running. The analysis will always be based on the criteria the client cares most about, which means that those under serious consideration will always fall into a more narrow band.


 


 

Community Guru
Petra R Member Since: Aug 3, 2011
29 of 38

................ what Tiffany said....

 

 

Community Guru
Melanie H Member Since: Nov 2, 2017
30 of 38

@Petra R wrote:

................ what Tiffany said....

 

 


 

Yes, me too...agree with all of it.

 

Since the OP's focus was on VERY low-paying, apparently low-quality (unless I misjudged that) jobs, the choice is a little clearer.

 

After that, it does become a matter of checking into the specifics of the job itself, or in some cases (I encountered that with a client, actually) the client posting an abbreviated time rate as fixed, then asking for a rate for ongoing work, ergo it looks like an incredibly low rate...etc.

 

 

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