CLIENTS SHOULD STOP GHOSTING !!!

[cf2a89ee]

"CHECK OUT IMAGES USED AS REFERENCE"

- Clients should please hire someone when they post a Job. Ghosting when you post a job means freelancers lose their (boosted) connects used in applying for your Job; including freelancers whose proposals weren't viewed (which is totally unfair). Don't wanna hire someone? cancel the job post. connects get returned, upwork stop bothering you with emails - everybody wins. 

- For example: the reference Image I can imagine freelancers will bid as much as 40+ connects to get that Job, Now Imagine in a month a freelancer applies to 10 similar jobs where the client ghosts that's 400 connects wasted !! $50 gone ; a month $200 - might not be bad for Top freelancers, but it affects upcoming freelancers who have not started to make much.

or maybe Upwork should return the boosted connects when clients doesn't hire within a period of time but I bet they won't. 

But another thought is why would a client post a Job when they're not ready to hire? it sounds like something bots would do -  as a mischeivous act to waste freelancers connects. (my conspiracy theory) I guess Upwork should check that out. 

So please always close/cancel your Job post when you're not ready to hire or when you've not found the right freelancer.

Thank you.

**Edited for Community Guidelines**

[prestonhunter]

John:
There is no such thing as "clients ghosting freelancers" on Upwork.

There are only these possibilities:

a) The freelancer is using Upwork correctly. If the client disappears completely, the freelancer gets paid for all of his work AUTOMATICALLY

b) The freelancer is using Upwork INCORRECTLY.

====

If you did work, and you got paid for all of you work, then you weren't "ghosted."

If you used Upwork incorrectly and didn't get paid because of YOUR mistake, then you weren't "ghosted."

If you were never hired, then you were not "ghosted."
If you walk by a shoe store and you see some cool sneakers, but you never go in and buy them, that's fine. It doesn't mean that you "ghosted" the store.
If you apply to a client's job and the client doesn't hire you... You may be disappointed, but really you shouldn't dwell on it. The client did nothing wrong, and it doesn't mean that you were "ghosted."

[cf2a89ee]

Preston; thanks for replying but I think you missed the whole point. 

Maybe the term "ghosting" is little bit confusing, I meant clients disappearing after posting Job request and not hiring anyone, hence "ghosting"; and that when this happens:

-Boosted connects used by freelancers in submitting proposals get wasted. I know clients don't owe freelancers such duty to close jobs when they're not ready to hire and such but they should please consider that freelancers pay to submit proposals and 90% percent of freelancers pay more to get their proposals to the top.

So in essence clients should please close a Job post when they're not hiring it will go a long way in helping freelancers  save connects as to it being wasted when applying for "ghost Jobs". 

[skopedes]

I am quite sure you either:

1. Didn't properly read the OP's concerns.

2. Didn't care about the OP's concerns, but had a response ready based on the title of the thread.

John is talking about neither of those situations. He is not talking about working for a customer and not getting paid. You're also blaming the freelancer using Upwork incorrectly on something the customer is doing to all freelancers.

I'll rephrase his point. The concern is regarding clients posting jobs, and then not hiring anyone on Upwork at all for that job. There are people in there that paid many many connects to be a boosted proposal, and many freelancers wasting their connects for a job the customer didn't really care about in the first place. These clients don't just 'ghost' the freelancer, but kind of ghost the entire job. The OP is arguing that Upwork should close these automatically and return all the connects to the freelancers if this 'customer' fails to hire someone at all.

There's many of these, I'd say half of them at least. I attached some more of these examples. Fortunately none of the freelancer proposal count was high as the one in the beginning of this thread. But it's a very common occurance. 

If the client doesn't hire anyone in a month or so, or even interview anyone, then the connects should be returned. I agree with the OP.

[tlsanders]

Why do you assume that a client who doesn't show a hire on their posting wasn't ready to hire? Why rule out the possibility that they didn't find the right freelancer for their job? That they hired through one of the several other platforms they likely posted on? That they found out through the proposals that the project was going to cost more than they anticipated? That they broke the rules and hired someone from Upwork outside the platform? 

[sajal36]

I believe as we are discussing on upwork so it will be beneficial to highlight client interest on hiring on job posted on upwork. One of the indicator that client is not ready to hire is the indicator "last viewed by client" in the job post goes over 10 days or so.

I believe if client have not even reviewed the proposal in last 10 days than definitely he is not actively looking to hire someone on the job.

[tlsanders]

You're entirely wrong, though, since the barrage of emails from Upwork allows a client to easily monitor incoming bids without ever returning to that page. Upwork should seriously consider removing that meaningless metric.

[cf2a89ee]

Thanks for replying:

Re: Why do you assume that a client who doesn't show a hire on their posting wasn't ready to hire? 

---

Because the Job post has 0 invites and the Clients hasn't checked the Job post in about 9 days. Successive pattern is not an assumption. I joined Upwork last year and I know this; and why should a client post a Job request when he/she is not ready to hire? lol most freelancers put in a lot of effort to compose proposals for every job post, some even x2 their connects to get the job. I think that's a bad thing.

Re: Why rule out the possibility that they didn't find the right freelancer for their job?

Is that even possible? there're top rated vetted experts on every niche on Upwork or maybe the client doen't have enough budget to hire a vetted expert. 

I think you misinterpreted my whole statement too or maybe I used the term "ghosting" wrongly; my bad

By "ghosting" I meant clients disappearing after posting a Job and not hiring anyone hence freelancers connects get wasted. Not saying a client must hire but they should please close the job when they're not ready to.

I know its a "freelancer problem; I'm just posting this out here so most clients would know that freelancers pay to submit proposals and some pay more to boost theirs - when you don't hire someone or cancel your post it means those who paid more to be on top of your Job post lose their money/connects.  It's like wasting money on a product ad. 

That's my point; thanks.

[tlsanders]

So....are you assuming that a client who chooses to rely on proposals instead of wading through the horrible search process isn't ready to hire? Or that a client who looks at new prospects in the landslide of emails Upwork sends about submitted proposals and doesn't log in unless they see something interesting isn't ready to hire? It really sounds like you just don't know anything about the process of hiring freelancers, on Upwork or in the larger world. 

I think you dramatically overestimate what it takes to become top rated. Plenty of garbage proposals come from top rated freelancers.

[spectralua]

Does the client receive a notification about each offer separately and can read from without entering the jobpost?

[prestonhunter]

re: "Does the client receive a notification about each offer separately?"

No.

Clients don't receive automatic messages about every submission. Clients use the Upwork client-side interface to see the list.

[tlsanders]

Please tell me how you made that happen. When I post a job on Upwork, I am bombarded with emails about applicants--sometimes, I get two or three emails about the same one.

[prestonhunter]

I don't know. Maybe I changed my settings a long time ago,

I receive some emails when I post a job. But after a couple initial messages, I receive only occasional messages. Certainly not a message for every proposal.

[tlsanders]

This is an example of what I receive via email

[cf2a89ee]

Tiffany S; I've seen your replies under this thread, It seems you don't understand what's being discussed yet, It doesn't matter whether the clients intends to hire or not, doesn't matter whether a client created another job post and hire, any job post a client leaves open and refuses to hire/cancel within 30 days automatically expires and the boosted connects used by freelancers to submit proposals for the job automatically waste; no matter how much the connect is. it's like pouring water into a basket.

This post is just saying when clients decides not to hire; they should cancel the open Job post - saves freelancers from losing connects unnecessarily and the client can of course repost the Job back when he/she is ready to hire. 

Though I think this wouldn't have been a problem if Upwork acted in a fair way.

Shalom.

[tlsanders]

Actually, it seems like you are having trouble following individual comments and replies. 

First, I responded to this from the original post:

But another thought is why would a client post a Job when they're not ready to hire? 

Do you mean to tell the person who started the thread that his question posted in the original post was outside the scope of his own post? Or do you believe that he didn't mean what he said? 

Then, I responded to this comment from YOU: 

and why should a client post a Job request when he/she is not ready to hire?

Possibly, before critiquing someone else's responses,it would make sense to review the discussion and make sure you remember what's been said. Or, just skip trying to control others' input?

[skopedes]

The OP is not assuming that per se. 'Ghosting' here means he just disappears from the offer altogether, not closing the job. The OP is advocating that in cases where an offer remains open for weeks and has not been looked at for a long time, that the job opening closes automatically and the connects get returned to freelancers. This happens a lot. A lot of connects wasted for a client who ended up hiring nobody. Clients don't have to pay for their job postings, freelancers have to pay for their connects. So what's to keep clients from making 'test' job offers just to see what happens? Nothing, only the freelancers pay.

[tlsanders]

So, you're suggesting that OP didn't mean it when he asked "why would a client post a Job when they're not ready to hire?"

Weird. Do you have any ideas about why he might have asked a question he didn't want answered? 

[skopedes]

I doubt you understand his concerns and just desire to argue like it's Facebook. It's quite clear to me what his point is.

[6a182ed6]

I have posted jobs with 10+ proposals and no hires. Reason: I received 10+ generic applications of the form "Hire me. I will do great job." that had nothing relevant to the job I posted.

[sajal36]

When you go hiring that quite normal. In the submission, you just get 1% submission or so fit to the job and that's what I am telling you from my experience.

Now sometimes it is matter of luck you get right select in the first 1% and not too good luck as you may find suitable in last 1%.  However, whether it is first 1% or last 1% submission, you will definitely get suitable profile. 

I believe if job is open for long than it definitely indicate client priority changing and hiring is going on pause. If this is the case, than it is a request to close the job post.

[skopedes]

So my question is, if you can't find anyone, then why not just close the offer? It's a button and it costs you nothing. It does, however, cost the freelancers plenty of connects.

[alex-nemchyn]

I'd like to see your job description.
Because there are a lot of jobs that say, "Hi, Upworker. I need something like this. You know, something good. Something like this. More information for the chosen performer."😂

Do you think maybe that's why you get these offers.

I apologize if that's not the case.😉

[kfarnell]

Recently, I bid on a project that looks as if the client didn't do anything, but they opened a separate project and hired me from that.  I've also been award projects a few weeks later. And more confusingly, I bid on a project with a past client who chose to contact me via the message board for the previous project and ended up adding it on there rather than opening a new contract.

Yes, a lot of projects don't go anywhere, but appearances can be deceptive. 

[tlsanders]

This is a great point. There are a lot of client who post as hourly but ask for a flat rate quote in the proposal. There's no telling how many of them are setting up new projects to hire someone on a fixed-rate contract.

[deborah-ponzio]

Yes, I also saw that happening - why do you think they post hourly jobs if they plan to hire on a fixed-rate basis? I'm curious 😉

[tlsanders]

I think it's because on a fixed-rate job, you are required to post a budget, and many clients don't have any idea what it will take to get a job done well. Guessing wrong will draw the wrong candidates and keep the right ones away.

[cad87050]

Yes, this is the right question.

[valeriechu]

Hi John, you definitely raise a good question. I double checked the connect return policy (Ref). The tricky is that connects are not returned to freelancers if the job expires by itself. One of the conditions for returning the connects is when the client proactively cancels the contract, which is actually not common.

I also agree with you that Upwork should look into the expired jobs with 0 hires. It would be fair to freelancers to get their connects back for these projects. Thanks!

[tlsanders]

I think they should stop giving them back when the client closes the job without hiring.

[skopedes]

Why? The client pays nothing, but the freelancers lost a lot of connects which actually do cost something.

[tlsanders]

Because I think it's counterproductive to reward freelancers who don't win jobs with endless recycled connects to keep flooding clients with proposals and driving them off the site. 

[16e8d3b2]

That's a good point.

Clients should not post jobs when they are not ready to hire freelancers!

I've spent my 130+ connects on job post and haven't heard anything from clients who posted such jobs.It is unfair

[tlsanders]

As discussed above, there is no reason to believe a client who doesn't end up hiring someone on Upwork wasn't ready to hire a freelancer.

[bilal1983]

I thought this post was going to be about clients ghosting hired freelancers, and was looking forward to different takes on it. Turns out it is about pre-hire ghosting (not that this isn't a valid topic)

[lucioric]

Yes, typical, both when clients have invited the freelancer to a job (more when it is Friday; clients should be buying the beers for the weekends, happily,  when the freelancer is seeing that the week closes with little income. And with a contract opened but suspended by Upwork, more (ah, it is Saturday, sorry, but I working hard here).