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battershall-ramo
Community Member

Call centre scammers?

I'm getting a lot of invites from people who want a pre-made script read over the telephone. I've noticed that call centre scammers are increasingly using native speakers when phoning to say that your Hotpoint warranty is out of date or you need to purchase a new Microsoft licence, etc. Has anyone responded to one of these jobs and is my intuition that I'm being invited to collude in defrauding people correct?

30 REPLIES 30
g_vasilevski
Retired Team Member
Retired Team Member

Hi Ramon,

 

If you have seen a job post regarding this, could you please share the details with me via PM (click on my name)? Our team will investigate this further and will take proper actions. Thank you.

~ Goran
Upwork

They all seem to have disappeared from my feed at present. When I spot one, I'll let you know. 

Definitely  scammers. Microsoft will never phone proactively phone customers. Microsoft also has various sites where fraudsters can be reported.  

The scammers are always trying to up their game.

 

When I answer my landline phone, the calls are always from scammers and telemarketers. I mostly just answer the phone out of curiosity nowadays. To keep up with their latest developments in the phone-based scam/telemarketing industry.

 

Calls are almost always from people with an Indian accent. So it is easy to just hang up when you hear an Indian accent. So call center companies moves to using audio banks, which use software which a call center operator can use to play audio files recorded by American/British voice actors.

 

Eventually people caught on to this.

 

Now I am noticing more calls from live callers who are actually American or who can pass for being American.

 

But still the majority of calls are from callers with obvious Indian accents or from call centers using audio bank software.

 

A key thing to understand is that for the people who create the software, run the call centers, and place the calls, these are just jobs. 

You might think there is a distinction between a telemarketing call and a scam. For many off the people working these jobs, I don’t think there is a distinction. It’s a job.

 

Calling to sell real solar panels? It’s a job.

Calling pretending to be from the IRS or Microsoft? It’s a job.

 

Obviously most of these jobs are not filled through Upwork. It is interesting that the original poster noticed some jobs directly recruiting non-Indian voices through Upwork.

 

re: “Has anyone responded to one of these jobs and is my intuition that I'm being invited to collude in defrauding people correct?”

 

Sometimes yes. Sometimes no. There are lots of legitimate uses for these recordings and lots of legitimate uses for audio bank call center software. Including incoming customer support centers. And outgoing telemarketing is generally legal. It’s not all scam-related. I don’t think it is the voice artist’s responsibility to police the industry.


Preston H wrote:

You might think there is a distinction between a telemarketing call and a scam. For many off the people working these jobs, I don’t think there is a distinction. It’s a job.

 

Calling to sell real solar panels? It’s a job.

Calling pretending to be from the IRS or Microsoft? It’s a job.


No, it's not a job. If you don't work for the IRS or Microsoft, but you call somebody and tell them that you DO work for the IRS or Microsoft, then you're taking part in a scam. I don't see any grey areas here.

 

re: "No, it's not a job. If you don't work for the IRS or Microsoft, but you call somebody and tell them that you DO work for the IRS or Microsoft, then you're taking part in a scam. I don't see any grey areas here."

 

I agree with you.

 

They are scammers. They are part of the scam.

 

I'm simply pointing out that from their perspective, this is "just a job."

 

We can differentiate between looking at this from a moral perspective versus a sociological perspective.

 

The people who work at the call centers typically know if they are working a "scam" or not. But this is a major industry in India and some other places. This is a "job" that people go to every day, whether they do it online from their home or go to an organized call center with cubicles, a break room, managers, an HR department, etc.

 

The same non-descript office buildings may house similar-looking offices in different rooms and floors, some of which are fielding incoming technical support calls, some of which house telemarketers selling timeshares or questionable but legal insurance schemes and some of which are lying about representing companies or government agencies they have no real connection to in order to trick old people out of their savings. The workers in these offices may well know each other and go to lunch, play soccer together, etc.

 

If you watch TV series and moves about crime, you regularly hear the criminals refer to "a job." They know that if they organize a bank robbery or if the organize a mass looting of a store, where they steal things for the purpose of resale, or if they organize a "long con" where they trick a wealthy widow out of all of her savings, etc... They know that these things are "crimes." But this is their "job."

 

But to say that something is "just a job" doesn't mean that that there is nothing more to it than that. For many scam call center workers, financial motivation may truly be the only reason they are doing the job. But it's not JUST about money. Many of them are intelligent, talented, capable people who could easily make as much money (or more) doing completely legal jobs. But the thrill of "the game" is part of the allure.

 

Within the industry, there is a lot of lore about how "rich Americans" and "rich Europeans" deserve to be scammed due to the way those people or their ancestors victimized the scammers' countries (India, Haiti, Nigeria, etc.). There is talk about financial "inequity" and "social justice." Most of this is just talk, of course. I don't think most of the scammers fully buy into it. But it's a big part of scammer culture.

 

You can see all of these things within the songs and music videos that are made by and about the whole sub-culture. There are even TV series - documentaries as well as scripted dramas and comedies - about scammers and scammer call centers.


Preston H wrote:

re: "No, it's not a job. If you don't work for the IRS or Microsoft, but you call somebody and tell them that you DO work for the IRS or Microsoft, then you're taking part in a scam. I don't see any grey areas here."

 

I agree with you.

 

They are scammers. They are part of the scam.

 

I'm simply pointing out that from their perspective, this is "just a job."

 

We can differentiate between looking at from a moral perspective versus a sociological perspective.

 

The people who work at the call centers typically know if they are working a "scam" or not. But this is a major industry in India. This is a "job" that people go to every day, whether they do it online from their home or go to an organized call center with cubicles, a break room, managers, an HR department, etc.

 

If you watch TV series and moves about crime, you regularly hear the criminals refer to "a job." They know that if they organize a bank robbery or if the organize a mass looting of a store, where they steal things for the purpose of resale, or if they organize a "long con" where they trick a wealthy widow out of all of her savings, etc... They know that these things are "crimes." But this is their "job."

 

There are different reasons why people work these jobs. Earning money is a big part of it. But it's not JUST about money. Many of them are intelligent, talented, capable people who could easily make as much money (or more) doing completely legal jobs. But there the thrill of "the game" is part of the allure.

 

Within the industry, there is a lot of lore about how "rich Americans" and "rich Europeans" deserve to be scammed due to the way those people or their ancestors victimized the scammers' countries (India, Haiti, Nigeria, etc.). There is talk about financial "inequity" and "social justice." Most of this is just talk, of course. I don't think most of the scammers fully buy into it. But it's a big part of scammer culture.

 

You can see all of these things within the songs, music videos, TV series that are made by and about the whole sub-culture. There are even TV series - documentaries as well as dramas and comedies - about scammers and scammer call centers.


How is any of this relevant? The OP's question was, "is my intuition that I'm being invited to collude in defrauding people correct?" I guess I'm just flattering myself that a less confusing and more succinct response is, "Yes, probably," and not "Some people would consider it to be a job."

The poorest people in these countries can't speak English and can't afford a computer anyway. I think it's mainly middle-class graduates who were too lazy/incompetant to make anything of their degree in IT.

re: “The poorest people in these countries can't speak English and can't afford a computer anyway. I think it's mainly middle-class graduates who were too lazy/incompetant to make anything of their degree in IT.”

 

Many of the workers don’t use their own computers, but work from call centers. And many of these workers are indeed from the poorest segments of society. Many of them flatly state that they don’t like doing scam jobs, but that it’s the only job they can get.

 

Also, many scammers don’t use desktop/laptop computers, but use mobile phones. Some scam work requires desktop/laptop computers. But not all. It depends on the scam.

I don't think trying to bully elderly and vulnerable people out of their money under false pretences is a job, it's outright criminality. If you check out the various scambaiters on YouTube, they usually start by creating a tragic false persona - very elderly and naive, recently bereaved etc. - to see if the scammers have any conscience at all before going on to ruin their day; most scammers actually appear to enjoy trying to trick and intimidate the most vulnerable members of society.

Ramon: I completely agree with you.


Preston H wrote:

So call center companies moves to using audio banks, which use software which a call center operator can use to play audio files recorded by American/British voice actors.

 

 

 So these audio banks sell canned questions and answers? It must be strange trying to have a conversation when you get one of these calls.


Ramon B wrote:

They all seem to have disappeared from my feed at present. When I spot one, I'll let you know. 


If you have been getting a lot of invites you should still be able to access them.

 

Nichola L wrote:

Definitely  scammers. Microsoft will never phone proactively phone customers. Microsoft also has various sites where fraudsters can be reported.  


Ramon didn't indicate that any of the job posts were mentioning Microsoft.

 

Isn't it more likely that perfectly normal companies want their answering machine texts or their phone system scripts read in nice English?

 

How would running a recorded script even work as a scam?

re: “How would running a recorded script even work as a scam?”

 

Audio bank software.

 

Which can be used in scams and noble legal enterprises and everything in between.

 

I receive these calls every day when I answer the phone. The recordings are used by both scammers and telemarketers.

 

Typically the voice work is excellent. But that in and of itself is a “tell.” Because real telemarketer/scam call center workers are not so polished.

 

When this software was first being used I was genuine fooled, as were most people. There were some great articles written in newspapers by people who were receiving the calls and trying to figure out what was going on.

 

Even now that people have more experience with the audio bank software, it is still very useful and effective. I have no way of knowing how much awareness there is among the people who receive the calls. I can imagine that the majority of call recipients don’t realize that they are interacting with a non-native English speaker who is using audio bank software to simulate a conversation with a native English speaker.


Petra R wrote:

How would running a recorded script even work as a scam?


I get them occasionally - a recording pretending to be from my credit card company or insurance provider or bank (they don't mention any names, obviously), saying something has gone wrong with my account so I need to call such-and-such number. Then when you call the number (I don't, obviously), you give the scammer a bunch of information (like your account number and password) so that they can "verify your identity" and "check your account". I'm sure there are other scams as well.

good grief... I haven't had a landline since I moved to Italy, seems the phone scammers are way further than they were back then...

I think they send you online prior to getting you to give them control of your computer. It got ridiculous during the lockdown and we were getting about 10 dodgy calls a day. They know that most people know what to look out for, so they're trying to change it up a bit. 


Ramon B wrote:

I think they send you online prior to getting you to give them control of your computer. It got ridiculous during the lockdown and we were getting about 10 dodgy calls a day. 


WOW! How do they even get the numbers?

I so don't miss a landline!

re: “How do they even get the numbers?”

 

They purchase phone number lists, which are gleaned from many sources.

 

Plus they can use lists of randomly generated phone numbers.


Petra R wrote:

 

WOW! How do they even get the numbers?

I so don't miss a landline!


I don't have a landline either - the robo calls come to my mobile.

Taken as a whole, scamming is one of the world’s biggest industries.

 

Americans lost $29.8 billion to phone scams last year according to this CNBC article.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/americans-lost-billions-of-dollars-to-phone-scams-over-the-past-year...


Preston H wrote:

Taken as a whole, scamming is one of the world’s biggest industries.

 

Americans lost $29.8 billion to phone scams last year according to this CNBC article.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/americans-lost-billions-of-dollars-to-phone-scams-over-the-past-year...


I'm willing to bet (though too lazy to look it up) that the vast majority of fraud occurs from people willingly handing over their information to scammers, as opposed to having their accounts hacked. 

 

My boyfriend was once waiting to use an ATM, when a woman in front of him said that she had forgotten her reading glasses, so would he please help her to withdraw some money? She then handed him her card and told him what her PIN was (!).

I don’t think people having their accounts hacked is the same thing as getting scammed.


By definition, I would classify account hacking and scamming as two separate categories of fraud.

 

re: “My boyfriend was once waiting to use an ATM, when a woman in front of him said that she had forgotten her reading glasses, so would he please help her to withdraw some money? She then handed him her card and told him what her PIN was (!).”

 

This makes me want to watch the rest of the movie where the boyfriend tries to withdraw cash from his own bank account the next day, only to find out that “granny” was actually a conwoman with an RIFD card reader who has cleaned out his bank account.


Preston H wrote:

This makes me want to watch the rest of the movie where the boyfriend tries to withdraw cash from his own bank account the next day, only to find out that “granny” was actually a conwoman with an RIFD card reader who has cleaned out his bank account.


Nah, he cleaned out her pension fund, moved to an island in the Caribbean and lived happily ever after.

 

True story.

 


Christine A wrote:

Preston H wrote:

This makes me want to watch the rest of the movie where the boyfriend tries to withdraw cash from his own bank account the next day, only to find out that “granny” was actually a conwoman with an RIFD card reader who has cleaned out his bank account.


Nah, he cleaned out her pension fund, moved to an island in the Caribbean and lived happily ever after.

 

True story.

 


So, did he take you with him?


Preston H wrote:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/americans-lost-billions-of-dollars-to-phone-scams-over-the-past-year...


Oh

My 

God

 

"Nearly 1 in 3 Americans say they’ve fallen victim to a phone scam in the past year, like the ones where someone calls pretending to be from the IRS or from a company inquiring about an expiring warranty on your vehicle.

That’s according to a new report from Truecaller that finds roughly 59.4 million Americans have lost money to phone scams over the past year. About 19% fell victim more than once,"

 

1 in 5 people who were scammed let themselves been scammed again?

 

Is it possible that people in America are maybe not very... um... what's an acceptable word.... not very... "careful"? (Not what I want to use but more acceptable than "bright")


Petra R wrote:

Preston H wrote:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/americans-lost-billions-of-dollars-to-phone-scams-over-the-past-year...


Oh

My 

God

 

"Nearly 1 in 3 Americans say they’ve fallen victim to a phone scam in the past year, like the ones where someone calls pretending to be from the IRS or from a company inquiring about an expiring warranty on your vehicle.

That’s according to a new report from Truecaller that finds roughly 59.4 million Americans have lost money to phone scams over the past year. About 19% fell victim more than once,"

 

1 in 5 people who were scammed let themselves been scammed again?

 

Is it possible that people in America are maybe not very... um... what's an acceptable word.... not very... "careful"? (Not what I want to use but more acceptable than "bright")


Trusting is the word you were looking for. 


Martina P wrote:

Is it possible that people in America are maybe not very... um... what's an acceptable word.... not very... "careful"? (Not what I want to use but more acceptable than "bright")


Trusting is the word you were looking for. 


Trust me, it wasn't...

tlbp
Community Member


Petra R wrote:

Preston H wrote:

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/06/29/americans-lost-billions-of-dollars-to-phone-scams-over-the-past-year...


Oh

My 

God

 

"Nearly 1 in 3 Americans say they’ve fallen victim to a phone scam in the past year, like the ones where someone calls pretending to be from the IRS or from a company inquiring about an expiring warranty on your vehicle.

That’s according to a new report from Truecaller that finds roughly 59.4 million Americans have lost money to phone scams over the past year. About 19% fell victim more than once,"

 

1 in 5 people who were scammed let themselves been scammed again?

 

Is it possible that people in America are maybe not very... um... what's an acceptable word.... not very... "careful"? (Not what I want to use but more acceptable than "bright")


I think it is hard for individuals who aren't susceptible to scams to understand why others might be. Yet, scams have perpetuated for hundreds of years. So, there is obviously some skill to the craft that enables to overcome human beings' natural defenses.

It can be difficult for individuals with different IQs and EQs to understand the actions of those outside their cohorts. 


Petra R wrote:

Ramon B wrote:

They all seem to have disappeared from my feed at present. When I spot one, I'll let you know. 


If you have been getting a lot of invites you should still be able to access them.

 

Nichola L wrote:

Definitely  scammers. Microsoft will never phone proactively phone customers. Microsoft also has various sites where fraudsters can be reported.  


Ramon didn't indicate that any of the job posts were mentioning Microsoft.

 

Isn't it more likely that perfectly normal companies want their answering machine texts or their phone system scripts read in nice English?

 

How would running a recorded script even work as a scam?


_________________________

I think he mentioned something about a renewing a Microsoft licence. 

 

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