Can a client remove milestones?

[eric5037]

Hi, 

I've been working for a client the last 7-10 days. The contract initially had 10 milestones to be completed: I have completed successfully the 5 first of them and the clients has been pretty happy about the results (great work!, thumbs up & so on). 

Great, All good! but after giving me the 6th milestone, he tells me that it is the last milestone I will have to complete for him but that he's been very happy working with me and will give me the best feedback. 

So what I'm asking myself is: can he do that? can he change the milestones of the contract as he wishes? (giving more tasks and corresponding milestones wouldn't be a problem but is that the same in the other direction). 

It's important to know that: 

- he's been a happy client with me (everything's going great!)

- he's given me 5$ bonuses without even asking him (everything's going great!)

- I asked for a 15$ bonus on a harder milestone, he verified and told that it was perfectly fine and that he observed that what I was saying was true and gave me that bonus (everything's going great!)

- he was talking about 10 sites but those 10 sites appear in the proposal but not in the offer which is more kind of: what do you think about going milestone by milestone.

I don't know what the answers of my question will be but if what he's doing is not really right, would there be a difference because he was more generic in the offer than he was in the proposal?

Thank you!

[lysis10]

If they haven't been funded, then yes they can delete them or change them.

[eric5037]

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Jennifer M wrote:

If they haven't been funded, then yes they can delete them or change them.

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Thank you, Jennifer. 

This is the answer I was afraid of, I don't know why I ask but I had to ask!

Usually, when I work with fixed price contracts and milestones, the client funds the milestone just before asking for a job. Have you ever had the case of a client funding all mistones at the same time, say before even completing the first milestone?

Dumb question: does it work that way in the "real" world? I mean: a contract is a contract, right?

In that case, he's been more clever than that creating a different offer than the proposal. If he wouldn't have done that and had sticked to the original offer clearly specifying 10 sites to work with/on, would he have had the same right to delete milestones? (in which case, doing this would be clearly saying something like: "the proposal does not matter, I can do whatever I want")

[m_sharman]

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Eric B wrote:

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Jennifer M wrote:

If they haven't been funded, then yes they can delete them or change them.

---

Thank you, Jennifer. 

This is the answer I was afraid of, I don't know why I ask but I had to ask!

Usually, when I work with fixed price contracts and milestones, the client funds the milestone just before asking for a job. Have you ever had the case of a client funding all mistones at the same time, say before even completing the first milestone?

Dumb question: does it work that way in the "real" world? I mean: a contract is a contract, right?

In that case, he's been more clever than that creating a different offer than the proposal. If he wouldn't have done that and had sticked to the original offer clearly specifying 10 sites to work with/on, would he have had the same right to delete milestones? (in which case, doing this would be clearly saying something like: "the proposal does not matter, I can do whatever I want")

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Any contract can be broken, the likely difference in the "real world" is cancellation clauses. That said, I don't know how much your contract was worth, but the cost to "fight" breach of contract vs. the value of lost project time/money is seldom worth it.

I would let this go. With fixed price contracts sometimes you win, sometimes you lose in terms of an appropriate timeline/value for the contract/work. The bottom line is, as long as you haven't done the work for the unfunded (now canceled milestones) it really doesn't matter. Think of it as the project finishing early, not that he canceled milestones. 

[lysis10]

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Eric B wrote:

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Thank you, Jennifer. 

This is the answer I was afraid of, I don't know why I ask but I had to ask!

Usually, when I work with fixed price contracts and milestones, the client funds the milestone just before asking for a job. Have you ever had the case of a client funding all mistones at the same time, say before even completing the first milestone?

Dumb question: does it work that way in the "real" world? I mean: a contract is a contract, right?

In that case, he's been more clever than that creating a different offer than the proposal. If he wouldn't have done that and had sticked to the original offer clearly specifying 10 sites to work with/on, would he have had the same right to delete milestones? (in which case, doing this would be clearly saying something like: "the proposal does not matter, I can do whatever I want")

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I am not sure if they can fund all at once, but I know once a milestone is funded and the contract started, they can't do anything until the first milestone is released. I've kinda run into that problem before.

If this is an issue of you doing more than what's escrowed, then maybe have future clients escrow all upfront and then they can release part of the milestone. I'll do 50% on larger stuff but then only 50% of the work is done. For smaller stuff, I will only do all or nothing. Hourly is another option if escrow is too many headaches.

In the real world, I can only speak from what I saw growing up and yes Upwork is different than real world stuff. Usually, it's 50% down, and then a percentage on completion of milestones and a breach of contract means a lawsuit. My dad spent lots of his time chasing money, In the real world, the vendor does a thing and you do the thing and then invoice and get paid. There's no escrow. But we also work with very small amounts. In the real world, you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake so lawsuits are worth the hassle to get your money. Even at a $10,000 loss, it's probably only worth small claims in the hopes of getting like $5k back, and this is if the client is in the same place. If they aren't local, it's not worth it. People bank and manipulate based on this issue, even Upwork.

[eric5037]

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Jennifer M wrote:

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Eric B wrote:

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Thank you, Jennifer. 

This is the answer I was afraid of, I don't know why I ask but I had to ask!

Usually, when I work with fixed price contracts and milestones, the client funds the milestone just before asking for a job. Have you ever had the case of a client funding all mistones at the same time, say before even completing the first milestone?

Dumb question: does it work that way in the "real" world? I mean: a contract is a contract, right?

In that case, he's been more clever than that creating a different offer than the proposal. If he wouldn't have done that and had sticked to the original offer clearly specifying 10 sites to work with/on, would he have had the same right to delete milestones? (in which case, doing this would be clearly saying something like: "the proposal does not matter, I can do whatever I want")

---

I am not sure if they can fund all at once, but I know once a milestone is funded and the contract started, they can't do anything until the first milestone is released. I've kinda run into that problem before.

If this is an issue of you doing more than what's escrowed, then maybe have future clients escrow all upfront and then they can release part of the milestone. I'll do 50% on larger stuff but then only 50% of the work is done. For smaller stuff, I will only do all or nothing. Hourly is another option if escrow is too many headaches.

In the real world, I can only speak from what I saw growing up and yes Upwork is different than real world stuff. Usually, it's 50% down, and then a percentage on completion of milestones and a breach of contract means a lawsuit. My dad spent lots of his time chasing money, In the real world, the vendor does a thing and you do the thing and then invoice and get paid. There's no escrow. But we also work with very small amounts. In the real world, you're talking hundreds of thousands of dollars at stake so lawsuits are worth the hassle to get your money. Even at a $10,000 loss, it's probably only worth small claims in the hopes of getting like $5k back, and this is if the client is in the same place. If they aren't local, it's not worth it. People bank and manipulate based on this issue, even Upwork.

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Thank you!

[petra_r]

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Eric B wrote:

I've been working for a client the last 7-10 days. The contract initially had 10 milestones to be completed: I have completed successfully the 5 first of them and the clients has been pretty happy about the results (great work!, thumbs up & so on). 

Great, All good! but after giving me the 6th milestone, he tells me that it is the last milestone I will have to complete for him but that he's been very happy working with me and will give me the best feedback. 

So what I'm asking myself is: can he do that?

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Clients can walk away from any contract at any time, all you can dispute is funded (!!) milestones. 

Theoretically you might be able to say that the client is in breach of contract if you have a contract that states that you will be doing all 10 milestones, but there is no way to enforce that, as all the funded milestones were completed and paid, and as far as Upwork are concerned, that's the end of it.

Practically there is nothing you can do.

[eric5037]

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Petra R wrote:

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Eric B wrote:

I've been working for a client the last 7-10 days. The contract initially had 10 milestones to be completed: I have completed successfully the 5 first of them and the clients has been pretty happy about the results (great work!, thumbs up & so on). 

Great, All good! but after giving me the 6th milestone, he tells me that it is the last milestone I will have to complete for him but that he's been very happy working with me and will give me the best feedback. 

So what I'm asking myself is: can he do that?

---

Clients can walk away from any contract at any time, all you can dispute is funded (!!) milestones. 

Theoretically you might be able to say that the client is in breach of contract if you have a contract that states that you will be doing all 10 milestones, but there is no way to enforce that, as all the funded milestones were completed and paid, and as far as Upwork are concerned, that's the end of it.

Practically there is nothing you can do.

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Thanks for you answer, Petra!

That is the 2º answer that goes in the same direction: I can't do nothing and the client can do more or less whatever he wants. He was clever about the contract/offer that differs from the proposal which was what we agreed on but if what you're saying is true (and I saldy think it is!), he wouldn't have had to be that clever as he can do what he wants (but he still doesn't know because it's a new client here on Upwork)

Something tells me that in "real" life (non virtual I mean), breach of contracts are not so easy but here, well, everything's possible. 

[tlbp]

Freelancers are also able to end a contract at any time. In the real world, clients cancel their orders, fail to pay and all sorts of other nonsense. In the real world, if you want a contract that includes a penalty for cancellation, you have to draft it yourself or pay an attorney to do so. Then, if you want to enforce that contract in the event of a breach, you have to do it yourself or hire an attorney to do so.